Why do our schoolchildren behave so badly?

[somanyquestionz]

I see a lot of posts on here about schools/teaching and how behaviour in schools is getting worse. I started teaching English in France this year and was really worried about it because I know what British kids are like and expected the French to be no different. I've been pleasantly surprised though as they are really well behaved. I work with 15-18 year olds and they're all lovely. All really polite and get on with the work and come up with good ideas when we have group discussions. They can sometimes be a bit noisy but will be quiet if they are told. Meanwhile, I read so many horror stories online and hear awful things from teachers I know in real life. I remember being at school and the kids were horrible to the teachers, fights every single day, a pregnant teacher got punched in the stomach (baby survived luckily), someone smeared poo all over the wall in the toilets, doors and windows getting smashed every day. And that was before Covid and TikTok.
So why are our kids so bad? French kids are on social media too and use TikTok, they all went through the pandemic, some of them experience problems at home just like here. I know about 10 other people also teaching English and the behaviour is good in all schools. When I told the French English teachers (if that makes sense!) about what our schools are like, they were shocked.

Basically, French parents know how to bring up children. British parents flounder about trying 'gentle parenting,' pandering to the slightest anxiety and getting involved and over dramatic about their child's every moment.
A generalization but largely true. Read 'French Children don't throw Food.'

Because they're getting told they are the only important thing around, that being told 'no' is abusive, there's no consequences for violence and aggression. Schools can't discipline anymore.

Dunno. Today almost finished me off though.

I totally agree with you dotingmumand granny
permissive/ gentle parenting means that at secondary age children do not feel the need to follow rules/societal norms.
I have also seen this follow through into the workplace.
French children don’t throw food was a real eye opener for me in terms of different parenting techniques, and what outcomes they have.

Do both parents tend to work in France? Do they work as long hours- I imagine the U.K. has
more absent parenting as opposed to passive

What type of lycée are you in? I think that might explain it.

My children are 12, 14 and 17 and have always been well behaved at school. We've taught them that teachers and other staff are to be respected.
Unfortunately some parents dont care and allow their kids to do what they like with no consequences. This makes them disrespectful and unruly at school. Crap, lazy parenting basically.

I think in the UK so there is so much talk about the childrens’ rights and less about their responsibilities

it’s all about gentle parenting and not setting boundaries. People don’t tell off their children like they used to. Our grandparents would turn in their graves at the things British teens get away with these days.

@Emanresu9

I think in the UK so there is so much talk about the childrens’ rights and less about their responsibilities

I don’t think I’ve ever heard a more perfect explanation. I completely agree with you

French schools are selective from 15 onwards aren't they? So like a grammar sixth form if you are teaching 15-18 ywar olds in an academic lycee?

My friend is a teacher at a non- academic lycée in France and she finds the behaviour difficult at times.

We have family in Spain who were teachers, now retired, they say the same as we do about kids so I dont know really.

I used to do lessons on rights and responsibilities. The students could tell me, very precisely, what their rights were. They struggled to correlate that with responsibilities.

Does France invest more in their equivalent of PRUs and Special Schools ? I'm not a teacher but it shocks me how hard it is for schools to permanently exclude a student for their poor behaviour.

It will depend so much on the area and type of school you are in. There are real problems with sexual harassment, violence etc in some French schools. There are also many schools in the UK without those sort of problems. My cousins kids are at school in Switzerland- she tells me horrific things that go on. I think there are entitled nightmare children everywhere!

I don't know about France but here, everyone from the government to the media to parents loudly and routinely criticise schools and teachers. This of course flows down to the children themselves. We live in a country where teachers are openly disrespected and distrusted and then wonder why many children feel they don't have to do as their teachers say.

Type of school, not nationality.
yr 8-9 in any school is hard, but girls grammar much less hard- whether in fr or uk
comprehensive style education with range of abilities, large class sizes, few teaching staff and poverty is hard behaviour-wise, regardless of place

I don't buy this in the least, sorry.

I think you hear the horror stories because people like to complain, and the UK is currently a bin fire compared to France, so people are feeling rotten.

I live next door to a primary school and have worked with recent school leavers for ages, and I think there is far, far, far more evidence of people enjoying whining about young people, than there is evidence of actual bad behaviour.

But, hey, if you want to believe we're in the middle of a social crisis and to sit tutting 'kids nowadays' and being nostalgic for the good old days, feel free.

Not sure what the answer is, but bad behaviour is the main reason why I will never return to classroom teaching. Unfortunately an awful lot of teachers think along the same lines and are leaving the profession. It will take a massive effort to turn that dynamic around.

I live next door to a primary school and have worked with recent school leavers for ages, and I think there is far, far, far more evidence of people enjoying whining about young people, than there is evidence of actual bad behaviour.. @sArahAndQuack
Really? You honestly think there's little evidence of actual bad behaviour in schools? There was a thread recently where posters where saying taking knives into school wasn't a big deal!

Exactly. I bet it isn't in the banlieue north of Paris.

I don't know much about the French system, but ime teachers in England are often left unsupported when dealing with poor behaviour. Improving behaviour is labour intensive and nobody has time. Classroom teachers are often under pressure to keep unruly kids in class, and in some (toxic) schools are blamed when kids behave poorly. The lack of funding means schools are constantly trying to find cheaper (hence less experienced) teachers so there's few teachers with expertise. Add in the teacher recruitment/retention crisis (so kids often have a succession of supply teachers rather than consistency) and you get a perfect storm.

Blaming parenting is easy, but only a very small part of the picture imo.

I'm not sure gentle parenting is the issue. The children at my children's private school are remarkably well behaved from what I have seen. Lots were gentle parented.
I think the levels of deprivation and lack of aspirations in some areas are the problem. There's so much inequality in the UK.

Pretty much this!

I said, I think there is far more evidence of people enjoying whinging.

I am aware there is bad behaviour in schools, but this thread strikes me as a lazy attempt to generalise. Oh woe, how come our children are so awful (what ... all of them?), how come they all behave like <anecdote anecdote anecdote>?

What's the point of it? What does the OP want people to say? 'OMG yes, it's definitely because there's two working parents/ no one gives their kids a clip round the ear no more/ children have rights these days and it's disgusting'.