Why do our schoolchildren behave so badly?

[somanyquestionz]

I see a lot of posts on here about schools/teaching and how behaviour in schools is getting worse. I started teaching English in France this year and was really worried about it because I know what British kids are like and expected the French to be no different. I've been pleasantly surprised though as they are really well behaved. I work with 15-18 year olds and they're all lovely. All really polite and get on with the work and come up with good ideas when we have group discussions. They can sometimes be a bit noisy but will be quiet if they are told. Meanwhile, I read so many horror stories online and hear awful things from teachers I know in real life. I remember being at school and the kids were horrible to the teachers, fights every single day, a pregnant teacher got punched in the stomach (baby survived luckily), someone smeared poo all over the wall in the toilets, doors and windows getting smashed every day. And that was before Covid and TikTok.
So why are our kids so bad? French kids are on social media too and use TikTok, they all went through the pandemic, some of them experience problems at home just like here. I know about 10 other people also teaching English and the behaviour is good in all schools. When I told the French English teachers (if that makes sense!) about what our schools are like, they were shocked.

I remember being on an exchange in Germany and being locked in the classroom as the behaviour was so bad and I've taught impeccable 13/14 year olds here who have hung on my every word and wanted to learn 🤷🏼‍♀️

But that’s nothing to do with gentle parenting though is it? If you actually knew what gentle parenting was about you wouldn’t even suggest it was to do with it!

DS secondary was known locally as the zoo for years, I moved from down South to oop North so had no idea and DH and I had just got married. When we had lived here for about a decade they got a new head teacher, he was really strict no nonsense. When it was time for DS to go there it was a completely changed school. I mean completely, you didn’t want to be out near the school when the kids were out previous to that.

The headteacher retired two years ago and I hope it remains as decent.

I think @SarahAndQuack has it right. People have been saying “kids today” since there were kids today. For what it’s worth, I spent some time in a UK small-city grammar in the early 80s and was shocked by the behaviour. But my anecdote doesn’t prove any rule.

Oh great another thread proclaiming how British kids are the lowest of the low.

Not like the utopia of French education where my friend's DD who has dyslexia was made to stand in front of the class and read time after time whilst others laughed and then kept back a year. I mean that's how to instill confidence in a child for sure 🤔.

I worked in primary and secondary schools for many years in a peripatetic capacity and the vast majority of kids were well behaved and the teachers were doing a fantastic job. As someone else said very often those who had challenging behaviour had significant issues going on in their home life, but hey let's judge them anyway shall we because that fits the MN narrative that this country is going to hell in a handcart. Yawn.

I really detest the whole "French kids or women do ...xyz..". It's such lazy stereotyping and much as I love France and have French ancestry no country has a monopoly on perfect behaviour.

Helicopter parents brining up entitled
Snowflakes plus pandemic

I think people are confusing gentle parenting (Ridiculous name) with permissive parenting. Permissive parenting is neglectful parenting.

I also think there is a distinction to be made between authoritarian and parenting that imposes clear boundaries and enforces clear expectations. The former is abusive, and the latter good parenting. A parent who parents a child with empathy, respect, good communication, and clear boundaries can also be a parent who instils respect, and enforces good behaviour actively over reactively.

I work with LAC who have experienced authoritarian parenting and others neglectful permissive parenting. I've yet to find kids in care who have experienced 'gentle parenting'

But the main causes of behaviour is the failure of values, inequalities, poverty, the effect of trauma and stress generationally, selfishness, prevalence of narcissistic behaviours, parental stress, and I focus on adults and adult life. It isn't caused by being present, child focused, gentle, empathetic, responsive and responsible.

So many parents here on threads throwing their arms in the air "I can't cope" I want SS to help, the school are not doing enough.....yada yada and so much sympathy poured upon the adult.......its shocking.

I think it's very unfair to say that it's due to poverty. Many poor people value education. My mother was so poor growing up that she didn't own a toothbrush and both my parents saw education as the route out of poverty. Learning and respect for teachers was important. Being poor doesn't mean you're stupid or lack respect.

In contrast the most badly behaved child I know lives in a beautiful home and goes to private school. She is a lovely child but is incredibly indulged by her parents. She cannot cope with being told no or told what to do. Yet her parents blame the teachers.

We also have a general ‘yobbo’ culture which isn’t really replicated in the rest of Western Europe.

Broadly agree with this though would throw “shit parenting” into the mix along with the gentle variety. Decades of kids having kids, generations of never-employed in families becoming acceptable and zero consequences for bad behaviour. This clusterf*ck has being coming down the tracks for years and ignored by society.

your mistaken, what your thinking of is permissive not gentle, gentle parenting is an authoritative form of parenting

@Rhino94 wasnt commenting on what gentle parenting is, was adding shit parenting to the mix. It exists.

The teens I know here in England are just like the lovely ones you know in France. Judging people based on things people post online or that teachers mention will always give you a false impression- people only post about teen behaviour when it's a problem. No one is going to post on here about how their teen always makes them a cup of tea at the end of the day and enjoys volunteering to help under 5s read at the local primary (both true of my teen DD). Likewise if a teacher mentions something, it's because it's not the norm.

I've lived in lots of different countries and encountered lots of teenagers. They tend to be much of a muchness- mainly lovely with a few who are troubled and misbehaving [shrug]

Yes. Again though a difference between authoritative and authoritarian, because I'm sure there seems to be some confusion.

Gentle parenting would proactively instill behaviours through clear expectations of what is desirable. That's authoritative.

Authoritarian parenting would be reactively addressing behaviour not desirable.

There are far too many excuses. Far too much emphasis on rights. Parents have responsibility, not rights. Children have rights up until they have the maturity to take responsibility. They develop the ability to take responsibility in direct relation to their development of reason. Reason is what is lacking!

That was my point, that it's not actually what gentle parenting is, it's what modern parents perceive to be gentle parenting, hence why I put it in speech marks!

I agree with this

Yeah, l was at secondary in the 80’s.

The behaviour was appalling then. Much worse than anything I saw as a teacher.

Climbing out of windows during the lesson, standing on the desks. Sometimes we would plan to get as many people standing on a desk as possible in double French on a Wednesday afternoon. Drinking lager at the back of the class. And this was in a posh comp in a leafy suburb.

I never saw behaviour like this when l was teaching.

This is so true.

My friend is married to a French guy and he had so much higher expectations of their children's behaviour, than my friend did. In particular, his insistence on excellent table manners nearly broke their marriage. My friend dreaded the big family get togethers because the French children were always just so much better behaved and socially adept.

Our DDs were raised knowing that, while they were pretty much the centre of my and DH's universe, they absolutely weren't the centre of the universe for anyone else. At school they knew they were expected to listen to the teachers, behave well and that any reports of their bad behaviour would make DH & me highly annoyed. They weren't raised to be self obsessed snowflakes. They were raised to roll with the punches and to be aware that life isn't always fair.

Also, DH & I never had a problem being the adult even if that meant our DDs sometimes didn't like us very much (gasp, horror). They've always known they're very much loved and that DH & I are their safety net which they can always rely on. But we've never tolerated any nonsense from them.

They're both now at university, and thankfully just don't seem to suffer with the self centered, navel-gazing, angst-ridden, entitled Princess tendencies which seem to inflict many of their peers.

In France there are several legal differences with the UK.
If a child damages property the parents are legally responsable for the damage. Legally children must obey their parents - doesn't always work, though.
Finally, at school, each and every pupil must be insured before putting a foot inside. No insurance, no admittance. This removes a lot of financial burden from the local authorities.

Poor parenting- simple as that.

@peaceandove - it's a shame a lot more parents don't use your methods when bringing up their children.