Why do our schoolchildren behave so badly?

[somanyquestionz]

I see a lot of posts on here about schools/teaching and how behaviour in schools is getting worse. I started teaching English in France this year and was really worried about it because I know what British kids are like and expected the French to be no different. I've been pleasantly surprised though as they are really well behaved. I work with 15-18 year olds and they're all lovely. All really polite and get on with the work and come up with good ideas when we have group discussions. They can sometimes be a bit noisy but will be quiet if they are told. Meanwhile, I read so many horror stories online and hear awful things from teachers I know in real life. I remember being at school and the kids were horrible to the teachers, fights every single day, a pregnant teacher got punched in the stomach (baby survived luckily), someone smeared poo all over the wall in the toilets, doors and windows getting smashed every day. And that was before Covid and TikTok.
So why are our kids so bad? French kids are on social media too and use TikTok, they all went through the pandemic, some of them experience problems at home just like here. I know about 10 other people also teaching English and the behaviour is good in all schools. When I told the French English teachers (if that makes sense!) about what our schools are like, they were shocked.

Kids are much the same everywhere. If you don't come across challenging behaviour, it's probably because the group you're dealing with doesn't contain the "difficult" ones.

I also used to live and work in a major tourist town that got 1000s of school children visiting every year.
The french ones were the worst. Without a doubt.

I don't know why we are treating this as fact. Your experience of one French school and a few more British schools does not define what French kids and parenting is like..my experience of French friends' kids is that they are undisciplined nightmares but I don't think that applies universally.

Unless it's just that French teachers actually like teenagers, which most UK teachers really don't seem to.

@TheMoops

You can have two working parents and well behaved children.
It's more about the values you instil in your child. We both work and our child is well behaved and respectful - he'd get absolutely bollocked if he misbehaved in school or was disrespectful to his teachers. We frequently get told how well behaved and polite he is

Yes you're right. We both work but our children are polite & get good school reports. But we're both teachers (poor kids).

Honestly I think it’s really dependent on the socio-economic status of the local families which has the biggest impact on school- in the UK and everywhere. Some schools you hear of absolutely horrendous behaviour and they’re often in poorer areas where students have more difficult home lives. Wealthy middle class areas don’t seem to have the same issues to the same extent. It’s not fair and it shouldn’t be the case but all my teacher friends who have had to leave schools due to stress and bad behaviour moved to ‘nicer’ areas and it was poles apart.

The UK child poverty rate is 33 per cent.

That'll be your answer.

I hear what you are saying. Again, this is a sweeping generalisation, but French adults en masse can come across as terribly rude too whilst having formally very polite manners ifyswim! It's hard to explain. Part of it is a certain pushiness maybe? Part a cultural difference which comes across as too direct to British ears! And some of it comes across as an insufferable superiority! (Depends on the person of course.) They generally won't praise something unless they think it worthy of praise, whereas a Brit might make up a white lie in similar circumstances just to be polite.

I should say that they can find us very rude too. A French shop keeper used to complain to me regularly about English families who came in to her shop and went straight to the shelves without looking at her, or greeting her, allowing their DC to be loud and touch all of her stock and play around and break things, and then leave without saying goodbye! Again, that is partly a cultural difference but to her it was insufferably rude!

I have spent quite a lot of time living with French families with small children. It’s quite simple, the kids are treated as adults and respond to it. By this I mean they have dinner at the table with parents every evening, they are expected to fit in with the parents’ lives, and there’s something about French mothers that is very calm and authoritative. The houses are also more quiet and theres more of a focus on calming activities like reading, card games, puzzles etc rather than screens.

@Turgidsoul98

And I agree that there is less misbehaviour in French secondary schools, but my goodness, give French children the opportunity to have some unsupervised down time, say at a party or during a free period, and they absolutely explode as a result of having to be so conformist the rest of the time, whereas British dc would perhaps be slightly more chilled given the same amount of liberty, as they would be more used to it.

This reminds me of the summer I finished teacher training and I did a few weeks work at a summer school & the French kids were really naughty - I remember they tried to convince me that the lesson was over as they messed with the clock.

Because lots of parents and society as a whole in the UK don't respect teachers so their child don't either. Kids reflect what they learn at home.

no that is a cop out answer. It’s families not valuing education and letting their children get away with murder. If it was as simple as a poverty issue you would have thought that all the kids in 3rd world countries would be terribly behaved as well, but hey they go out of their way to get an education.
and to the pp who said French kids don’t get a prize for turning up and washing their hands. Why should they?

Yes! The amount of teenagers you read about on here with anxiety is staggering. Maybe stop letting screens babysit them from the moment they can hold one?

This!

The worst kids I ever taught were French. From Marseille.

Honestly I think it’s really dependent on the socio-economic status of the local families which has the biggest impact on school- in the UK and everywhere. Some schools you hear of absolutely horrendous behaviour and they’re often in poorer areas where students have more difficult home lives. Wealthy middle class areas don’t seem to have the same issues to the same extent. It’s not fair and it shouldn’t be the case but all my teacher friends who have had to leave schools due to stress and bad behaviour moved to ‘nicer’ areas and it was poles apart.
That's my experience.
There were still issues with a certain type of middle class over-indulged pupil in the more affluent area, but I was never verbally abused or physically assaulted. There are different challenges and different workload issues in a more affluent area, but I never felt unsafe at work.

Part of the big issue is that the children and families who need the most support can't access it because services have been cut to the bone. Add in inter-generational negative attitudes to, and experiences of, school and the cycle continues.

Yes! The amount of teenagers you read about on here with anxiety is staggering. Maybe stop letting screens babysit them from the moment they can hold one?

The comments regarding anxiety are staggering too and frankly disgusting.

I don't really know France that well but I do know Spain very well and it's much more "family centric" in general. Kids are very much a part of life and a part of the conversation ime. This is a generalisation based on what I've seen amongst my Spanish friends, but the kids aren't given "kids food", they are given the same as the adults and even help cook it from a young age. Long lunches at weekends and get togethers always involve the children so they are well socialised from early on which gives them a maturity.
I think everywhere has their problems, but I agree with earlier posters about this current take on "gentle parenting" which is far removed from what gentle parenting theory actually is.
I know a lot of (at least 10 off the top of my head) people who are now in their 20s and were brought up with this "gentle parenting" model where basically there were no boundaries/discipline/routine etc. They're all deeply unhappy now and resent their parents hugely.

I should have been clearer in my post in saying I don't think it's as simple as rich Vs poor families.
I've worked with a lot of poorer families who would never stand for the sort of behaviour that other similar families excuse. The difference is the value placed on education and having enough support services available to break inter-generational issues

What an assumption! I find Turkish children, especially boys, very challenging and entitled.

My friend lives in France. She told me that the equivalent of child benefit is removed if children cause problems.

Also l was a teacher for years. My friend went on exchange to California. The kids in schools there were lovely. Mainly because they had to pass each year to move up to the next year. If they didn’t they were held back in the yoj get class. I think this is quite motivating in terms of behaviour.

British and American parenting is baffling to a lot of us from other cultures. There’s no discipline and so much fear of upsetting children.

Please don’t group gentle parenting into the same bracket as permissive, it is most definitely not permissive

they tried to convince me that the lesson was over as they messed with the clock

😁😁 @converseandjeans

And l taught for 27 years. The majority of students were just lovely. Really lovely.

@SO224350 I hate people who are this ignorant about mental health. People like you sicken me.