Thread 1 - Lifeboat Muster Point for TalkExiles

[Kucinghitam]

Gather here all ye refugees from the foundering ship of JTT, if ye be in need of "How the heck do I format my post?" "Why can't I edit my typos?" "What do those acronyms mean?" and most importantly, "Where is everybody that I used to know?"

Or just to chat randomly.

There's no reason to suppose anyone's taking any notice of the prolix poster, however. Can't be on the mod team, otherwise he wouldn't need to tell them what to do quite so much.

Virtually nobody, I suppose one or two do sound like they feel this discussion should be allowed - and an honourable mention to popstar7 who did speak up right from the start.

Going back to the International LOL, my Bulgarian friends do XAXAXA which I think is just anglicised version of phonetic HAHAHA in Cyrillic, IYSWIM. I'm not sure if it's just them, widespread in Bulgarians or even in other Cyrillic languages (Russian/Ukrainian etc)

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · Yesterday 23:24

I thought we were unpopular but that sane people were reading what we wrote and that even if they disagreed, even if they thought we were being wrong, they were reading it as if we were sane people posting in good faith. Turns out not.

I was quite upset that a number of posters, who usually go through things logically and backing positions up with evidence, simply said,

"Oh, I haven't read that thread, but I'm certain that they're all reprehensible bigots."

Or the ones who had never bothered to follow any of the links posted.

Oh, I don't know, now that the dust has settled I think the entire affair was a very elegant demonstration of the Rules of Misogyny and the broader point we had been making. i.e. women's concerns are always lesser and more trivial than everything else. (And that this viewpoint is shared by many women).

I met the verbose poster at that London meet. He's a nice chap, but not really someone I'd describe as an ideal Solutions Architect (it's a lot about talking to the stakeholders and making hard stuff simpler, gaining consensus and then moving forward). Posting screeds of what you reckon isn't that.

I haven’t noticed a single one defend us.

Popstar did. More than once. He deserves credit for that. That's big coming from me as he always used to take a pop at me on there but I never minded as I found him quite funny. I never put him on ignore. I just accepted it. But people surprise you don't they?

And hi to @BinkerTell whose old username I got with a quick think about Audrey Hepburn. She was often criticised for not being much of an actor but I never agreed with this. I thought she was a great comic actor and not just in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Funny Face, in which she starred with Fred Astaire, is great too and of course My Fair Lady in which she did her best to sing but was over dubbed by Marni Nixon whose voice was also dubbed into Natalie Wood in West Side Story.

God the useless info I can come out with all day long... I used to love GUT and then JtT for that. But every time I posted something, with every word I typed, was the thought in the back of my head, "Someone is going to take the piss out of me for this/someone is going to post something nasty about it." And I have to confess I self censored a lot because of it. I got tired of all the, "You dun 'arf talk a load of bollocks" reactions I got from some. I thought, why bother? What's the point? I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I'm just having a bit of fun. That's why I much prefer Twitter now. Somehow nasty remarks don't touch me there because it's so vast and mostly anonymous. But in a small pool of posters it's much more noticeable. Like a village compared to a city or a family compared to a large workplace. It small groups it matters. It notices. It shows.

Anyway I feel fine here. I post here without fear! POST WITHOUT FEAR!

I haven’t noticed a single one defend us.
Popstar did.

Yes, absolutely - there were a few people from JTT who defended us. I was talking about a different, smaller subset of posters

I was talking about a different, smaller subset of posters

Fair enough. The don't make a fuss brigade. Why can't we all just get along. Why are these pesky women ruining my talkboard where all I want to do is talk about football/politics/film/music whatevers

I am trying not to mind about those who said nothing but just stood by. This always happens. There are the bullies, the bullied, the defenders of the bullied and the defenders of the bullies. But most people just duck for cover. In a situation where your life or livelihood is at stake I can understand. But on a talkboard!? Where there is nothing at stake!? You can't take a stand and say, hey, stop that when you see people you know to be perfectly reasonable being bullied and called vile names and then the cheers when they leave and yet still they bang on about us!? You don't wanna stick your oar in just a bit!? Point out it's not the unreasonable ones who left!?

Bystander apathy. That's what allows nastiness to flourish.

If it's any comfort to you, before I left JTT, I didn't have a strong view on the issues at hand and the thread you all posted on really opened my eyes to the clash of rights and the need to defend women's spaces and the nuances and complexities of the issue.

Linked to this, what I found annoying was the way that 'and some women disagree with you' was repeatedly produced as a gotcha moment. However, the thread of evil assertion (shared by me as a supportive lurker) was that women are in fact different and can't be reduced to a single stereotype or view that can simply be adopted.

the clash of rights and the need to defend women's spaces and the nuances and complexities of the issue.

This is exactly right, and the fact that talking about these issues is deliberately suppressed through shaming means that fewer people get the opportunity to understand this. I, like I suspect most of us, realise that it is complex and it will take time to find a set of accommodations that work for most people and we might not all agree what’s fair, but turning it into the black and white, good and evil issue is what has made it so toxic. The tactic seems to be to label examination of the issue in of itself an act of aggression meaning people shy away from it. I can’t remember having come across anything similar before.

If it's any comfort to you, before I left JTT, I didn't have a strong view on the issues at hand and the thread you all posted on really opened my eyes to the clash of rights and the need to defend women's spaces and the nuances and complexities of the issue.

That's great to hear @BinkerTell

I've just read back the Thread Of Evil, Bigotry And Hate, as I missed it when JtT announced he was closing the boards because we were a shitstain on the site. I know I come from a particular pov and I did post on that thread but, maaaan, the reasonable way the mostly women handled it all. And the men too. All saying, fine, we'll leave if it'll save the boards. All doing our Captain Scott thing. We're going now. And we may be some time. And yet STILL they called us bigots, scum, a cesspit. And some of still doing it on the future of JtT thread in userspace.

I mean what the hell do they want!? Stick us in the stocks? Burn us as witches!? They wanted our thread shut down. The threadstarter requested it to be closed. It was closed. They wanted us to leave. We left. And still they're werreting and yarking on about us. What do they want the girl to do!?

Perfectly illustrated by JtS's diatribe and Basil's subsequent conflation with right wing ideology. It's barmy.

The comment about "centre right" views is to me a perfect illustration of what is going on. For all the talk about technical solutions, it is not a technical problem, and no amount of tinkering with the architechture of the site will solve it. Simply put, people have become far more intolerant of any views that do not allign 100% with their own. There have been a number of posters who feel free to say they want a site that excludes this political view and that political view, and no one seems to grasp why this is to the site's deteriment and can only hasten its demise. I am from what could be considered a far left viewpoint myself, total Corbyn fanboy etc etc and I loved having a place where I could see what people like Lawsie were saying, as I understand the need to hear difficult things from people who saw things differently. If you can't bear having your views challenged by intellegent opposition then it doesn't say much for you. Popstar got this immediately and this is why he made the posts criticising what JtS wanted and got, which was a mob to drive people from the site. It's all very sad, made a little pathetic by the revisionism now taking place.

But as I said before (I think), what value has a board with a strong current affairs leaning got if certain subjects are not to be discussed, especially if they blow up? They can't, for example, deal with the charity commission and mermaids. They can't talk about Hadley Freeman being told that women couldn't write about such issues for the Guardian. Probably there will be a number of other shakeups that they won't be allowed to touch. But if they can't, then what? People will obviously drift away to talk about them elsewhere and the only ones who will get any satisfaction from pretending that none of this exists are maybe 6 blokes?

the only ones who will get any satisfaction from pretending that none of this exists are maybe 6 blokes?

Well as long as some blokes are happy, that’s the main thing.

Tass

Perfectly illustrated by JtS's diatribe and Basil's subsequent conflation with right wing ideology. It's barmy.

Yes, I'd always respected Basil, but he admitted to not having read the thread, yet condemned us as beyond the Pale anyway. Not to mention the patronising, condescending,

"You might want to think about why you've aligned yourselves with Tommy Robinson, mkay?"

It made me seethe.

No attempt to see that women want women's spaces and fair spot, for reasons entirely unconnected with religious extremism, or right wing hatred of anyone not a manly man, for goodness sake!

Just an assertion that because we complain about the same thing, from an entirely different stance, we must be Nazis and the Taliban.

Going back to the earlier discussion, did we reach a consensus on a general thread in FWR?

I respected Basil, right up to his foul-mouthed misogynistic diatribe. And the tacit agreement he got from most posters too.

A general thread would be great, Kuc, looks like people are in favour?

I've dipped my toe in a few threads. Am waiting for the classic Mumsnet decapitation. 👀

I'd definitely like a general thread. I don't think there's any reason not to have one and anyone who doesn't like it is free to pretend like it's not there.

I've read lots of threads but not really said anything. They do get a bit repetitive after the third page, I find. Everyone jumping in to have their say having read the OP...

I'd also like a general thread - would you start it, Kuc? You're good with words!

Heh, I saw my first dog-related AIBU yesterday, and Mumsnettians do not like dogs.

Basil was on a Facebook group Lawls and I were also on, we had a massive falling out over this. His argument boiled down to "Right wingers are using feminists viewpoints for their own ends, therefore the feminists should STFU". He got called out on this and left the group in huff and promptly started whining about us on JTT.