Was life really worse as a women when they were expected to stay at home and look after the dc

[hibiscusjam]

And what happened when the dc flew the nest?!.

I wish I could be a sahm but I can't afford to. Curious to hear from people who think it was terrible when society expected women to raise the dc once they had them vs go to work.
I find myself raising my dc and going to work most of the time. It's stressful. My dh travels for work but does help when he's home.

Choice is always best. My very bright DGM got a full scholarship to university (1940s) but wasn’t sent because they needed her in work until she married and because she was a girl it wasn’t worth it. So she was a typist and then married. She was so very bitter all her life that she hadn’t been a boy as they would have found the money then. DM says she cried when DM left for uni, not because she would miss DM but because it represented everything she wanted and couldn’t have.

When I was about 14 I read the Women's Room by Marilyn French. The portrayal in the book of a group of women in the suburbs in America who were stay at home mothers / housewives ( I think in the 60s ) has stayed with me forever. The lack of opportunity/ stifling boredom, the inequality and how women were treated.

Now of course hopefully things are better, women and men have more choice about how to parent and live as families. My mum hated being a sahp but she had few other opportunities in her time.
I still think we have a long way to go. A lack of affordable properly funded high quality childcare continues to limit choice . I feel that the lack of priority awarded by this government is an indication of continued misogyny and lack of investment in families and children.

I think anyone alive today DID have the choice. My own mother would be in her 90s if she was still alive. She was never a SAHM. My brother was born late 50s and I was born early 60s.

Before having children, she had a full time job/career in the Town Hall. She couldn't return to that job after children because it was full time post (thank goodness times change) - she always regretted not being able to return to the job she loved! She had children late in life (I think she was 40 when she had me), so she was well and truly a "career" woman!

So instead, she retrained as a teacher. In those days, it was possible to do that via the self/home study route, which is what she did during pregnancies and whilst me and brother were toddlers. She qualified as a teacher and then started work, part time at first and then full time once I went to school, with my grandparents doing the "wrap around" care for half an hour before/after school, as Mother worked at a school nearby so short travel time/distance. That was as far back as the 60s. She hated being a SAHM, hence why she changed careers.

There were options and alternatives. I'd say it was 50:50 between school friends' mothers who worked and those who didn't, that was late 60s, early 70s. My best friend's Mum certainly worked, but I can't remember where or whether it was full time or part time, I just remember that whenever I went to their house, she was seldom there!

This thread has just prompted me to ask my OH about his mother, and yes, she too wasn't a SAHM, she didn't have a career as such, but always worked, mostly it sounds, as a book-keeper/administrator, but she couldn't "settle" because her husband was in the forces, so they moved house every 2/3 years depending on his posting, so she basically found whatever work was available wherever they were.

But if you go back further, lots of wives DID work in some form. A lot of women used to work in the mills/factories during the industrial revolution, or worked on farms, or "worked from home", such as seamstresses, "home" based businesses like dairies, shops, bakers, etc.

I think it was a relatively short period in history where it was the "norm" for wives to stay home and "just" look after the house and husband.

Remembering my childhood in early sixties, no one had any money and they just scraped by. Everyone rented from the council and car ownership was rare, as were holidays.

That can't be representative regarding cars though as the 60s saw car ownership boom.

Holidays abroad would be rare but U.K. seaside holidays were very popular in the 50/60s.

My grandma was stuck in a highly abusive relationship . She couldn't work so if she left she had no where to live so couldn't take ( snd so protect ) her children.

She and her eldest son were both very keen that girls any got educated and always remained self sufficient . It gives you choice

I'd have gone mad if I didn't have the mental stimulation of work - many women ended up in institutions as mental health problems were dismissed and the mad or difficult women just locked away

When women as a class don't contribute economically in a capitalist society their needs will always be ignored , they will always be second rare

Choice is important, and it's true that in the past a family could be supported on one person's wage. But times were different, and many women were bored and isolated at home.
Imagine being stuck at home with no car, no internet, probably no phone, no babygroups/playgroups/soft play/baby or child centred activities and no daytime TV, and having to wash nappies every day.
I'm in my 60s, and I do remember pails of nappies soaking as a constant thing, my Mum being depressed and lonely, and also cold. I was used to it, but she had spent her youth abroad and English winters in a non-centrally heated house was a real shock. In our case, she was proactive, became part of a babysitting circle etc, but was clearly much happier once she got a job. My aunt, who worked in a family business even when her children were babies, seemed much livelier than friends mums who didn't work. It was hard going, and certainly for single parents there wasn't much of an alternative to working, although employers didn't make that option easy either.

The grass is not always greener.

Maternity leave is the most boring lonley isolating time ever. Babies and children rot your brain and exhaust your body until there's nothing left of you. Working part time was the only way I managed to keep myself from disappearing completely.

Being home alone raising kids while your husband works and basically sees you as an unpaid maid responsible for all things house and child leaving u financially dependent should be a choice not a necessity.

Work and money situations should however allow for a work/life balance. Thats a huge issue in the working world and financial climate.

I believe we undervalue raising a family in society. But thats because we undervalue women. I tbinkmits foolish if women choose to limit their choices and financial stability. I dont intend to do that ever again.

Choice is imperative but there isn’t really much of choice then or now. Back then women’s rights were less and strong stereotypes existed. Families were often bigger. Slowly these are being eroded away-not totally. And today there is not a lot of choice due to financial reasons. Women often find themselves juggling a house, children and a job.

Personal experience my grandmother had 9 children and didn’t work until from getting married and the last child turning 16. She then had part time jobs in the vicinity of the village. Then stopped working to look after all the grandchildren. My mother worked before she was married, then stopped working when she had us and returned to work part time when my younger sibling was 7. Finally working full time when we were all at secondary. I found myself in a similar fortunate situation. I work part time with our children in primary school and will continue to do so while they are at secondary. If I could I would be a sahm always find so much to do and love being with our children. If we could afford another we would certainly have one.

I think it's about choice OP. Women, we won the right to work and choose our paths.

Sadly, mostly owing to rocketing house prices and cost of childcare, that choice has been taken away and now we mostly have to work to get by.

Looking at governments chars there are now more cars /small vans than households

Back in 1970 there was only about 1 car for every 2 households

My guess is if you lived in a wealthy area you saw lots of cars, whereas many areas you might only know the odd person with a car

It seems to be only a middle class housewife that could SAH, without choice and forced to give up any career that she may have wished for herself the minute she got married.

That wasn’t always true. My mother was a SAHM from a pretty humble background. Pre-children, she had jobs not a career. Once we were older she studied for a degree and then started her career. 1960s.

😆 could you sound any more smug anecdata?

So both of your daughters have chosen not to have children - is that not a interesting wee bit of anecdata right there?

I was a sahm for 7 years, went back to work the day my youngest child started school. Which is exactly what my mum did before me. Although we both did bits of extra work when sahms eg she took me with her when she cleaned the church hall and I tutored in the evenings when dh was back from work. We both look back on that time at home with the children really fondly.
But we both had a choice.
My mil is older and had a breakdown she says from the feeling of being trapped and bored when her children had gone to school. The Dr actually told her to get a job and she felt a lot better when she did.
My grandmother was a sahm to 8 dc and she never gave the impression of particularly enjoying her life, but she did have some nice holidays once the kids had left home!
I think the price of housing and childcare now takes away parent choice and that's a real shame. I'm pleased that I had the choice 20 years ago.

That can't be representative regarding cars though as the 60s saw car ownership boom.

It was in the early sixties. In the street I lived on, just three households had a car. In the next street there were no cars although one family had a motorbike and side car (that carried four children). They did swap it for a car when the children got older.

@CowPie exactly right, my DM's experience was during that blip. Her own DM worked all her adult life despite having 6 DC although my other GM never worked outside the home, she helped raise her 9 younger siblings. They were all very much northern working class. But by going to university and living in a much more affluent area when she married my DM was surrounded by a very different type of middle class women who didn't work.

@DelurkingAJ your poor DGM, I can relate. when my DM finished grammar school my GF had already arranged a job for her at the big local factory. Thankfully my GM was having none of it and forced her to go to university like 2 of her brothers. But it caused a lot of anger in the family, DM was expected to work and start bringing money in to her father asap to repay him for raising her just like her sisters did but she was not supposed to have a career, especially when it meant being better educated and better paid than her DF. My DAunts went to work at the factory and were there all their working lives.

Would DM have been better staying in her lane working at the factory? No although she'd have had a better relationship with the family especially my GF after going against his wishes. Even after university she moved back in with her parents and gave him her wages, she even said she felt guilty for going to college and not starting work sooner. And when she married she gave my DF her wages. Women with their own money are dangerous

What we have now is wider access to higher education, higher expectations for our working lives and most importantly financial freedom and choice.

I have mainly been a SAHM, I’ve just done a tiny bit of part time care work. My DH had a well paid job and retired at 55 and I was 52 (ok 53 now). We have grown up DC living at home.
Life has been good to me financially, before I married I was a single parent university student and really poor.
I have enjoyed not working, I still have stresses in life such as a DC with a disability and I care for my DM but on the whole life has been good for the last 28 years.
When the DC were younger I got all my jobs done in a few hours during the day and then had time for myself and weekends were purely for fun family things. I absolutely loved the school holidays.
Now my DH and I have so much time to do nice things, I feel really fortunate. We go on holiday about 8 or so times a year and then I catch up with friends when I am back and I care for DM and do my hobbies.

I absolutely love being a SAHM, I think work is a trap for everyone. Luckily my husband WFH and has his own business so we get so much time together as a family.

If people want to work, more power to them but I don't envy them.

DH Mother was a SAHM but his family were really quite wealthy so she had a housekeeper and never had to concern herself with domestic stuff apart from giving instruction to the housekeeper. Her life was spent helping arrange socials and doing work for the Liberal party. Apparently many a cheese and wine party was held at DH childhood home, this was the 1970’s.

They also travelled overseas on rather expensive holidays so she spent time arranging those. In those days it was off to the travel agent plus even for house insurance you had to visit a broker. She was also dealing with their second home that had a few acres in the countryside that they would go down to quite often.

Her Mother lived quite close by so there was lots of going out to lunch as she also didn’t work. I mean they had a good standard of being a SAHM as both married to wealthy men.

Choice is always better.

I think there are different problems now - women still expected to do the wifework / carry mental load as well as working and contributing financially.

However, overall things are better, and the fact it's so much easier to work part time is great. Perhaps still more women than men, but I know a lot of dads who work pt and/or flexitime to spend more time with their kids. This is such an improvement.

I absolutely love being a SAHM, I think work is a trap for everyone. Luckily my husband WFH and has his own business so we get so much time together as a family.

You're in a trap too, your marriage. What would you do if it broke down? I'm sure you'll say you're happy in your trap, so believe me when I say I'm happy in my "trap" I love my career. I've worked hard to ensure I do something I enjoy, that pays well, and gives me independence and stability. I'm not at the mercy of my husband or our relationship.

Nice to see rising inflation and a difficult economy is women’s fault.

The biggest problem today is the cost of housing. This is due to insufficient supply. The price of housing has risen to match 2x people's earnings. This has then impacted rents.

Being a SAHM is a now a 'luxury'.

True choice requires being a SAHM to be affordable. That can't/won't happen until housing is affordable in a single wage. That's simply not going to happen in the UK for a variety of reasons.

Hello, we love each other so much, we've been together since we were kids, divorce is extremely unrealistic, I think we'd both rather die than live without each other.

Having said that, i've acquired assets during my marriage that are in my name, i'd be fine.

My MIL had to go to work at 14
despite being very bright. Her mother lay in bed late and so she had to get younger siblings up and give them breakfast. I also think she did a lot of housework. I think her mother was probably suffering from depression. MIL ended up on tranquillisers for ‘nerves’ when she had her own family. She was a SAHM mother until her four kids were older. Then she went to work full time and was much happier: Many women of that generation were on tranquillisers , including my grandmother. She had a terrible time with withdrawal symptoms when she came off them.

Agree with the other poster that you're in a trap. A much worse one than work.

I've seen so many of my SAHM friends totally blindsided when their DH leaves them and/or totally financially screwed and trapped when they want to leave.

One friend went from a millionaire lifestyle to working in a care home and desperately wished she'd built herself a career. She's doing so now but would never advise her daughter to be a SAHM.