Do families from other cultures also tie themselves up in knots about celebration days?

[FourChimneys]

I mean this very respectfully, just curious really.

There are so many threads on here about the stresses of Christmas, who is visiting who, who is "allowed" to watch the children open presents etc.

Is it the same for other celebrations? Do families celebrating Diwali or Hanukkah for example get tied up in knots too? Or is it a purely Christian thing?

Celebrating together with both sets of in-laws is obviously only possible in families where everyone is an only child, otherwise there's someone left out and it isn't the idyllic utopian loving and caring fest embracing the extended family at all. That's not a model that works across the board in any country without a strict one child policy going back generations Hestiadiggle

I'm one of four and my DH is one of three and we always celebrate Christmas with the whole extended family. I'm certainly not from a one child policy country!

I'm Muslim and this isn't a thing on Eid for us. I don't think it is for the majority of British Muslims. I was always under the impression that Christmas being so stressful was a relatively new thing due to the pressures of the advertising industry, family's living further apart ect ect ...

For Eid we all just go to each others houses, usually the grandparents first (with food provided by each family). We then go to each family's house and just continuously eat. Anyone can turn up and there are no invites. Sometimes we bring our friends along who the rest of the family don't know but this isn't a problem. The food just keeps rolling til the house closes. There is no set dinner but one year we did organise 3 family's doing starters, 3 doing mains and 3 for deserts. It didn't catch on. Half the enjoyment is in the spontaneity of the day. Randomly at 11pm someone will put on the WhatsApp group - "girl party at mine" and that's usually how it ends.

The kids don't get presents in my family. Maybe someone will give them some sweet bags and someone else will give some cash but it isn't anything huge and it isn't expected.

Surely this is a never ending chain though - four adult married siblings plus the parents of each spouse = five sets of grandparents/ parents of adults and four couples of your generation, so far 18 adults.

If you and each of your siblings has an average of two children, so far 8 children.

Then your husband is one of three, so his two siblings, their spouses and each of the spouses' set of parents. That's another 8 adults, and an average of two children for each of his siblings.

So far 26 adults and 10 children.

Unless your husband is the only spouse with siblings, there are still the siblings of your siblings spouses (if they're from smaller families one sibling each plus spouse is another 4 adults), so 30 adults, plus another 2 children per couple is 12 children.

Of course you can't exclude their parents-in law (another 4 adults, so 34 adults now), and the other children of the parents in law (if they each have 2 adult children another 4 adults, so 38 adults now), and the spouses of the other children of those in-laws (another two adults - up to 40 adults now - who have their own parents, so another four adults (44), but presumably they also have siblings, who have spouses (2 more adults), and the spouses have parents (four more adults) and siblings (2 more adults) and the siblings have spouses, who have parents and siblings...

It goes on exponentially. There's no cut off if all celebrate together.

That's without worrying about any stray great aunts and uncles who don't have spouses and children, or of course the grandparents of the adults of your generation, some of whom may still be alive.

All celebrating "together" because you love everyone, the more the merrier, is all very lovely as a theory but it doesn't hold water. You're drawing the line somewhere unless it's a closed loop because each set of older adults only has one adult child, who is married to an only child.

No matter where you draw the line, whether its at a gathering of six people or sixty, in many families this will be a cause of stress, offence, emotional blackmail and general dissatisfaction to someone.

I'm the only one of my siblings with children and the others won't be having any. DH's brother has kids but his wife is NC with her own parents and has no siblings, so doesn't see her own family at Christmas. His other brother has no kids and won't have them.

Obviously my kids will do their own thing when they get older, that's fine with me. But we have always had massive family Christmases. We have generally always clubbed together and rented a big house.

There is no emotional blackmail anywhere either. Sometimes a few of us are missing because we are doing other things (like one of my brothers did Christmas abroad a few years back), but no one is agonising over it.

I honestly think this year people are getting even worked up because of money etc

I have a friend who’s saved so carefully, literally took extra hours cleaning , to buy specific, very expensive gifts for her kids, and the pressure she has put on herself for them To
open them and be AMAZED and STUPIFIED at them, and to be the best mum ever (she is an amazing mum, she just wants them to be happy but has really focused on this Christmas not being ‘lesser’) - I can totally imagine her wanting to be front and center when her kids are opening gifts and not wanting the whole family there, whilst she makes coffee and sorts everyone out.

it’s the consumerist aspect that drives this I think. Jewish, Muslim etc holidays seem more focussed on food , cooking together , the actual religious element, than how Much you can spend.

My best friend is Japanese and while Christmas is low key, things like weddings are incredibly stressful and political (with a small p). It's one of the reasons why she doesn't want to get married.

For us celebrations are about the religious aspect, food and the people, gifts are secondary and inconsequential. My mum couldn't bear anyone being alone and it was always open house. Here it seems to be about nuclear Instagram Christmases & precise table settings. The warmth & spontaneously seems to be absent, everyone is holed up in their insular, nuclear family bunker.

Agree, - so many threads on MN, obsessed with keeping people out - 10 million threads each year of "AIBU not to want to spend Christmas with my parents/ILs/siblings?".

I totally get it if you have experienced abuse etc, but most of the posters just seem to feel that they are losing out, somehow, if they spend the day with anyone apart from their DP and DC.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow just to play devils advocate in relation to your post, I do think maybe it’s because the world has sort of changed and mums have less and less time to spend with their kids especially when small. When we were younger, spending time at Christmas with the whole family at my grandmas was what we did, but all the dads in the family worked (so my dad, all my uncles), and the mums worked part time or were SAHMs. Now it’s so much harder to stay afloat without both parents working and kids are in childcare from the get go, some full time (we have a small child in nursery so I can work so we are the same, so that’s not a criticism in anyway) so I think people get a little ‘possessive’ maybe ? They see Christmas as precious time off with the kids and don’t want to use it cooking for someone else , making sure guests are catered for etc. I have to admit I had a tiny bit of this when I first had dd, every Sunday DP would want to take his mum out, and I felt that it was one of two
days a week we had together as a family as DP worked such long hours often away for days on end, and that him bringing his mum took away from that. Batshit I know and I got over myself but maybe part of it is that?

It's an interesting idea, @Blueeyedgirl21 but, statistically, parents actually spend more time with their children than in the past. In previous generations, the mother may have been at home but the kids were often out playing and not interacting with her.

At the risk of sounding like a mad conspiracist, I think there is a huge push in a consumerist society to isolate individuals and then sell to them. I'm not saying we should spend all our time in each other's pockets, but I find it incredibly weird to see posters claiming that it would be cruel to their DC to take them away from their new toys on Christmas Day, so they have to stay at home. Every child I have ever met loves showing off their toys to relatives. Is it really Christmas if you haven't forced your grandma to build a Lego Death Star?

I too find the whole nuclear family obsession completely weird but I thought it was cultural tbh. Like when I hear of people whose parents or in laws stay in a hotel when they visit rather than at their house. To me that is completely bizarre (assuming you have space of course).

Well, its not really bizarre, is it?

Lots of people don't have space to host.

Lots of people have individual needs that don't suit living in someone else house. Like if Your Dad always wakes up at 5am and has a shower, but that will wake your wee kids up, or Your Mum likes to go to bed at 8pm, and can't sleep knowing there's people awake in the house.

Lots of people feel uncomfortable staying at other people's houses.

Lots of people feel uncomfortable having people stay.

its not that you don't love these people or don't enjoy spending time with them - there's just some times for some people they would rather stay in a B&B or whatever.

I think it's fair to stay at home in the morning, open presents, get dressed slowly etc but by 11 onwards, take them out, I agree. A bit of space/fresh air/change of scenery is welcome if you've just pretty much been with each other since 5am and the kids are buzzing ha ha

They can take a toy/gift to show off, play with etc. But seeing people is far more important than having things.

Culturally, to me it is bizarre. If, for example, DH and I chose to stay at a hotel instead of with my in laws they would find it really rude.

I already said I know some people don't have space. But different needs re bed at 8pm or a shower at 5am - I wasn't brought up like that, we were just brought up to muddle along and get on with it, kids and adults all together, all included. My mum wakes up around 8am when at home but when she stays with us she loves to have my DC go in to see her at 7. I go to bed around 10pm at home, when I'm at my mum's I go to bed later.

The family members will make any gathering hellish or happy depending on who they are. Awful family members are an equal opportunities sector.

My mum had a 3 bedroom terrace growing up and we used to have about 12 people staying in the house at Christmas, it was all part of the fun.

And everyone chipped in for food and helped with the cooking and they still do.

What a brilliant thread! (At least until the last few posts mostly about moaning families!)

I taught in a very diverse multicultural town, and have traveled a lot, so I love all the different festivals (and was lucky enough to benefit as parents would send in lots of food for my team to celebrate with us! We had very close relationships with then as it was a special school).

I'm loving all the posts from people describing their festivals. Thanks!

I think the style of food makes a big difference too. In SE Asian culture, we'll usually have food that is cooked in a couple of large pans and then lots of snacks and sweets/desserts. It's easy food to accommodate lots of people and at different times.
We usually have a big family get together at Christmas and we do the whole roast meat and potatoes, lots of veg, yorkshires, gravy etc and it is way more stressful!
Luckily, we don't have the stress of gifts.
Because our celebrations tend to be open house, we never worry about having to spend any specific time at in laws or family as we know they won't be lonely. People will pop in and they'll be off to others.

Definitely agree. Open house policies are the best and if there is no line in the first place then you don't need to draw it anywhere! The religious aspect of Christmas has sadly been lost and for some it is more about making things look good on social media and to meet expectations.

Sounds bizarre to me too.... It isn't "other people's" houses, it's mums or dads or brothers or sisters. It's the only house you can really go to and just make your own. Of course if space in an issue then it's an issue. I guess if people can afford it then fair enough but if they can't and it's expected for parents to spend on a hotel then that's quite bizarre.

how many people do you know do that though...

Do you mean make the house their own or stay in hotels?

Things have changed within the last generation though.
DH is from a huge family and everyone lived a short distance away from his Grandma, mostly walking. So Christmas was walking round for dinner and presents etc. Then after a few hours they would all leave and go to the pub and it was over.

Now everyone is spread about snd married with kids and seeing people at Christmas lasts multiple days and there is an expectation of it being special and magical all the time. DH complains it’s not like the Christmas’s of his childhood, but things have changed too much and people wouldn’t want that anymore.

I find the angst of adults controlling Christmas a bit pathetic to be honest. As far as I’m concerned it’s either a religious holiday or for children.