Help! Really f**ked up!

[ToastyTots]

So DS slightly inflated his degree grade from a 2:2 to a 2:1.

It took him a long time to find a job after graduation so I told him to put 2:1 on his CV and he got a good job soon after. That job didn't check and he was there for 3 years. A management change early this year made the culture very toxic and it took a big strain on his MH so he resigned and was without a job for a few months until he was offered another much better job last month.

He had kept the 2:1 on his CV. New job had a screening process which asked him to put his degree grade in and as he'd kept the 2:1 on his CV, I told him he needed to put that down.

They've now asked for his degree certificate!

He's already started working for them and really loves it.

WTH can he do? He'll be sacked in the spot when he produces the certificate wont he!

Obviously not going to alter it as that'll land him in worse trouble.

@howaboutchocolate

I didn't say it was fair, it's just what happens. I was always told at uni that if you wanted to get on a graduate scheme at a blue chip you had to get at least a 2.1. When they are getting thousands of applications for relatively few roles they need to make pretty dramatic culls

That's why in my final year I actually put the hours in and didn't party hard.

He has only done 3 years in a job, that's still graduate territory, particularly if his previous role was just a 'filler' until he found his first 'proper job'

"Obviously he's going to have to face the music and lose the job. I don't normally advocate lying but it was a means to an end and didn't hurt anybody at the time."

Of course not, OP, only the person who worked harder at university and got a 2:1 who lost the job because your son got it by lying and cheating at your suggestion.

FYI In my old company we would have checked his degree against his CV and that wasn't uncommon.

Sadly there are further problems brewing.

If leaves this company because of this and the reference is just ok HR at a new company will just ring them up and say "you've been very vague - anything I need to know - off the record?" If they say he lied on his application and CV I doubt whether a new company would offer a job - honesty is important.

My sister is in HR and they always do this for vague references - as I understand that most employers are reluctant to give bad references.

I hope that if he fesses up the company will look kindly on him and he can correct his cv for future jobs. Good luck.

OP I understand why you told him to do this - it's hard to see your children struggling, so you do have my sympathy, but it really isn't fair on those who have actually earned a 2:1.

Ok

All he can do is own up. Tell them how much he's enjoying working for them, how much he brings yo his work, apologise and tell them he's throwing himself on their mercy, asking for a second chance.

It would be gross misconduct and instant dismissal where I work. Better that he resigns and falls on his sword immediately before it comes out.

He needs to stop lying. As does the OP. The OP only sounds sorry because he's about to be found out.

I don't pretend to be the perfect parent. I have made mistakes myself. My dc is still very young. However, as a hard working student myself, working into the silly hours when my dc is in bed, I will NEVER encourage my child to lie about her results. I will encourage her to work hard (though she has complex needs, so sadly don't know if she will ever have the opportunity to even attend uni) but I have never lied myself for a job or grade and never will. Certainly I'd be disgusted if she did. Moreover I wouldn't encourage it. So no. Not perfect, haven't said I am. But I don't encourage blatant lies cheating hard working graduates out of jobs funnily enough 🙄

@EmilyGilmoresSass

TBF though the the grade was only 1% off a 2:1 having dug out the transcript tonight (58.9). I remember it being very close and being annoyed with him as just that little bit extra would have done it but couldn't remember the %. So I'm not going to get het up about some fictional other person who may or may not have got DSs first job when a 2:1 wasn't required for that job anyway! It wanted a degree but classification was not specified iirc and they never asked for the transcript.

He may have got that job with the 2:2 on his CV and it was pure luck it came up just after he changed it. I only told him to change it as he was searching so hard for a job and not getting anywhere. A lot of his friends ended up in carrying on doing the jobs they were doing part time like retail and bar work. He was obviously capable and did the job he was paid for. It's not like he stole anything.

I'm not a perfect parent either but I'd never be 'disgusted' at my child for telling a white lie on their CV so they could get a decent job and start paying tax. I'd save that for for a bit more serious stuff.

He's decided not to resign now, will style it out as a mistake and take what comes. He obviously wouldn't put the job on his CV if sacked and will be taking off the classification for future!

Pffff

Tell him to take his certificate in tomorrow

If they mention the 2:1 thing tell him to say it was a typo and must have just been on auto fill on his cellphone

Unless he's a brain surgeon or something they will not care.

It'll cost more for HR to rehire someone else, they don't need the trouble

He could also take the transcript in tomorrow

You're not a terrible parent, far from it

telling a white lie on their CV

In actual fact telling a downright lie on their CV.

You still don’t understand that this lie is, as you put it, ‘serious stuff’, do you? It’s so serious that numerous posters have told you it would amount to gross misconduct and dismissal in their workplaces. How much more serious would you like it to be before you change your mind? This could affect his whole career and earning potential.

Oh, and he might not have the luxury of pretending it never happened. Many applications require details of any time not accounted for, so this way he’s going to look like he left his previous job with no role to go to, leaving himself unemployed for no good reason. There’s no way to avoid this forever.

Not really sure how much more serious it could get tbh. He needs to grow up and own his mistake not get his mum involved

I'd be surprised HR wouldn't spot the cert has a big 2.2 on it....there's not exactly lots of info on there that you wouldn't spot.

Employing a known liar and someone who has committed fraud would be very stupid for a company to do, it will bite them in the arse again if you advise him to steal or de-fraud the company again.

I get why you told your son to lie in the first place, degree gradings separate the wheat from the chaff and a 2.2 is a very low grade.

But reading this thread you and you son do sound quite dim, why the hell didn't he (and you because he seems unable to adult properly, which is probably another reason he go a 2.2) make more effort getting him a 2.1 - then you wouldn't be in this situation?

I think you just have to see how this plays out, he needs to be honest with them, tell them the whole story otherwise he could be fired for fraud which will look a hell of a lot worse than a 2.2 on his CV.

I think people with 2.2 or thirds tend not to put their grade on their CVs, just the name of the degree and where you studied. Then you're not lying, but also not advertising you didn't get a good grade as the gap between 2.1 and 2.2 is considered a cut off by employers etc, so good to not draw attention to it, but really really stupid to lie, those days are gone as employers are much wiser to this and I've even been asked for my final grade breakdown for a job (I've got a first and a masters, with the certs, but they still asked as people do fraudulent say they have better grades than they do so companies are on the lookout for this).

You are trying to minimise what you and your DS deliberately did. You doubling down on your actions. You did wrong and need to own it. Many companies take this very seriously.

Depending on the role and the company he applied for, they could have had hundreds of applicants.

If he applied on LinkedIn, they have algorithms that specifically filter out people based on whatever the employer is looking for. This could include a minimum degree qualification. A lot of CVs don't even get through to a human.

Companies usually only interview a set amount of people so by him lying he probably did stop another bonafide 2.1 candidate from getting interviewed

There is so much degree elitism in here!
"separates the wheat from the chaff" jesus. Degree grade boundaries are pretty arbitrary. And I say that as someone with a first and then higher degrees.

In other countries they don't even really grade degrees, you just have one or you don't.

I don't put my degree grades on my CV. Job experience counts for much more after your first job.

People who care about degree grades and which uni you got them from are missing out on a whole load of great candidates.

I think it would be better to go in and confess to HR. Much better than being "found out".

Has he told them yet?

Oh for goodness sake OP don't dig into the lie further and further. He just need to own up now. He needs to send it the certificate and just see how the chips fall.

Just admit to DS that you gave him bad advice and that honesty is always the way to go, and that you regret ever suggesting changing the grade. A one year masters, a professional certificate or even repeating the final year in night school would get him up to the academic standards he is aiming for. Don't lie about it!

Well I can see you have no intention of admitting how serious this is and making light of it. Teaching your son great morals and ethics there aren't you? It doesn't matter if it was 1%, it was still a different grade. Someone likely worked harder to achieve it and you think it's acceptable for your son to lie his way through life. I've no respect for that I'm afraid. I can see by comments I'm not the only one.

So you told him to lie on his CV and now you’re telling him to lie that he needs to apply for a new certificate?

What have you been teaching your child(ten)? To lie to get what you want?

He will likely be sacked
He will get a poor reference
the Op will not update

@howaboutchocolate

It's not about degree grades &/or elitiism.
It's actually about recruitment criteria companies decide to enforce - which they are perfectly entitled to do.

You may not agree with them and it is a very blunt (& brutal) tool, however, companies have been doing it for decades and are transparent about their criteria - particularly if they have thousands of people applying for roles.

I think there are companies that probably are more dynamic in what they look for in candidates. They're probably smaller companies with less HR processes.

I agree that it doesn’t often matter what your degree classification was - though some avenues are only open for those with a 2:1 or above.

The issue here is not the degree classification, but the lying - an attempt to gain employment by deception. That’s the issue that the OP has created and she still doesn’t see why it’s wrong.