Help! Really f**ked up!

[ToastyTots]

So DS slightly inflated his degree grade from a 2:2 to a 2:1.

It took him a long time to find a job after graduation so I told him to put 2:1 on his CV and he got a good job soon after. That job didn't check and he was there for 3 years. A management change early this year made the culture very toxic and it took a big strain on his MH so he resigned and was without a job for a few months until he was offered another much better job last month.

He had kept the 2:1 on his CV. New job had a screening process which asked him to put his degree grade in and as he'd kept the 2:1 on his CV, I told him he needed to put that down.

They've now asked for his degree certificate!

He's already started working for them and really loves it.

WTH can he do? He'll be sacked in the spot when he produces the certificate wont he!

Obviously not going to alter it as that'll land him in worse trouble.

I had the same thought. OP is clearly not averse to dishonesty.

Because you are obviously quite far removed from current employment landscape recruiting those fresh out of university or those joining competitive industries.

Where you went and What Grade…. is very relevant

I was not referring to your advice.
it was your comment that the grade isn’t important just having a degree is

No. He needs to take the blame for it if he has any chance of salvaging it. Not blaming his mum. He's a grown adult.

Look at it another way. If the employer offered 50k and then said, ah you know what we lied it's 40k, it would be a breach of contract.

This applicant has said, twice, in writing he's got a degree he hasn't.

It's not the fact he got a 2:2. It's a fundamental breach of contract, particularly as I expect the offer was subject to conditions.

Perhaps when not pretty much anyone and everyone went to uni that was the case. Now…. Very very much not the case!

That might be true but I do hope you aren't a recruiter with your implied prejudice. I have a Third Class Honours - Russell Group and a tough subject. I am a fabulous talented highly-qualified employee. Lauded in annual reviews, used to be paid substantially very well. Graduated a long time ago. Worked for many investment banks.

Why did i get a Third? Long time before the current trend of chopping and changing subjects every year; long time before the current trend of everyone writing short answers only to questions. I did a subject that I was bored in - the lecturing was dire and the support non-existent. Wrong course for me.

I look at current graduates and even those a generation older - most can't argue sensibly, seem unable to research their own subject, cannot articulate clearly etc. And their attitude to work is appalling. But yes thanks to judgmental people like you I was stopped from retraining in a 2nd career as a teacher as I didnt have a 2:1 or above. Hysterical really. I wanted to work with older adults returning to the workplace after a break - cannot see what a young supposedly "intelligent" graduate would have to offer there.

I’d be worried about his reference OP

To be fair - you’re hardly the most objective on the issue are you

@thelionthewitchtheaudacityofTHISbitch but did you lie on your application? You probably wouldn't be so lauded then.

I think all you can do is help him face the music OP

@Oddieconvert my age is irrelevant. However I am C Suite and recruit my own staff. Subjects matter more to me unless you are medical. I am not in that field.
You have just attacked another poster. Have you first hand experience of lying staff unable to do the job? A probationary period is there to weed out ineffective employees. Certificates should accompany a signed contract. As I said before the poster was clearly upset. Please don't add to her distress.

Why? It's come back fine. His previous employers HR actually emailed him to say they'd received the request, had done it and to say good luck in his new job without him even chasing them.

@thelionthewitchtheaudacityofTHISbitch. DS's Uni subject was also very hard and more than half the class dropped out by the 2nd year. He was going to as well but decided to stick it out. He was in the cusp of a 2:1 and could have got it but admittedly he was partying a lot and barely attended in his 3rd year! There were a lot of issues with drinking and drugs as he got in with that kind of crowd but he's completely turned himself around now, very healthy gym goer, and I'm very proud of him.

Obviously he's going to have to face the music and lose the job. I don't normally advocate lying but it was a means to an end and didn't hurt anybody at the time.

Every time there's an update my eyes roll further back in my head. If he had tried his absolute best and got the 2:2 then I'd have a teeny bit more understanding.

It did. It hurt the candidate who came 2nd and would have got the job if he hadn't lied.

@ToastyTots his previous employer isn't aware he lied though , it shows a complete lack of moral compass and undermines the students that worked to get a 2.1
I'd be questioning everything he did after that
Withdraw from every job that his lied on and cross everything that he gets a job on his own merit
Don't advise him again

So he partied too hard in his last year and got a 2:2 that reflected this but you still encouraged him to change it to a 2:1?

Of course you want the best for him and are proud of him cleaning up his substance misuse but this feels like another "mummy's little soldier" post. An extension of him bettering himself from over coming his drug problems and lack of studying would be to accept his grade and persevere instead of repeatedly lying.

It might not be as big a deal as you think. I’m a physio by background and was most surprised when my band 7 told me they only look to see whether you actually have the degree. They don’t give a shit what class you got. No idea whether it was that organisation only or whether it’s specific to that profession but hey…

Did you seriously not understand that I meant the reference the current employer would give when they are asked to provide a reference (having sacked him)

I don't normally advocate lying but it was a means to an end and didn't hurt anybody at the time.

Apart from the other candidates in the process who didn’t feel the need to lie about their qualifications 🙄

“Attacked” good grief

I'm an AHP but not a physio, and I check that they've got a degree and are state registered but not really bothered about degree classification as I don't find that the strongest academically isn't necessarily the best clinically ie the one with a 3rd may be better with their patients than the one with a 1st.

Whereas with the apprentices, I am very much bothered about the qualification level/ subject/ grade and I check them, as they have to meet certain criteria as set by the uni/ college and if they don't have them, then even if I were to appoint them they'd be thrown off the course and would lose their job.

So really, it depends on what job role as to how serious it is. My organisation will withdraw offers on the basis of qualification.

The problem is the 2.1 degree qualification is often a cut off for many companies, it's used to screen out potentially hundreds, if not thousands of potential candidates. If he had put down his actual 2.2 he might not have got his foot in the door.

I've always found this a bit unfair. A 2.2 could be 59%, a 2.1 61%, once you're out of uni and progressing in your career does it really make that much difference. It's understandable to make that cut off for further degree courses or first graduate jobs, but after that it seems rather pointless.

I find this really disgusting. What about candidates who lost out on this job who actually did get a 2:1 and worked bloody hard for it. Diabolical selfish fuckwittery

Chill everyone !
Do you know how often people lie or exaggerate to get a job.
The mind boggles !! If he is currently a good worker , just hand in the certificate and wait and see what happens .
Maybe it will be just tick a box.
If it's noticed , play dumb and say you've made a mistake when filling out details, and ask where does that leave you regarding your employment . Be nice and the company might be too.