Asking adult dc to move out or change behaviour

[limeMeringue]

I’ve had enough. My house is treated like a hotel. I’m treated like staff. Every rule is broken . I can’t enforce any consequences as have run out of those I can enforce (eg no access to WiFi, not providing food so they have to buy their own etc etc )

Things have reached a head and nothing so far has worked. How do I go about removing them from the family home ? Do I even have to give notice ?
The other alternative is finding a way for them to change behaviour (but not NT so this is extremely difficult)
I’ve totally had enough.

I also have an adult PDAer and the way they treat me has me in tears on a regular basis

It took me a few years to build up to leaving their father and I feel like I'm going through the same mental process all over again

Mine doesn't work so they spend all day waiting for me to come home from work and then all evening treating me like shit

You have my sympathy

It’s horrendous isn’t it I just can’t believe how bad it can be . I feel like I have to think of everything I say before saying as the slightest thing can be take wrong and I’m constantly worrying

Ok, can you take a step back? And treat them like you would a child of about 9 or 10 with the same needs, or an early teen. It sounds like you are having a difficult time, and I don't want to take away from that AT ALL. Equally, your child has various disabilities that will affect their ability to learn, to regulate, and to cope with sensory issues including the work environment. I am sure from your posts that you want to have a relationship with your child, and that you would like to help both them AND yourself to have a calm and peaceful house. If you have already tried what I've suggested, please feel free to disregard my advice!

Some scaffolding/ coaching ideas, split down into the seperate issues:

Your child is rude and unkind to you, and you feel disrespected- could they be lashing out because you are still their safe person? And so, can you find a neutral ground to agree on behaviours towards people. Teaching them how to live together with others, as adults rather than as children- the transition from being a child at home to being an adult at home can be difficult.

Your child can cope at work (like presumably they did at school) but not at home with the everyday tasks of life- could work be the place they are using all their energy and so at home, they need to control the environment/ they are letting out their sensory overload/ having their shutdowns or meltdowns in a different way now they are older. So do they need a way to self-regulate at home, some specific workarounds for them- if they forget their key frequently, can you adjust your house so you have one of those fingerprint scanner locks (I don't know anything about them, just that they exist!) or a key hidden somewhere under a plant pot. Do they need a simple, easy meal available when they get home, or a bar of chocolate, cereal bar etc to boost their blood sugar and help them regulate and adjust to the home environment instead of the work environment .

Your child has sensory issues around the empty bowl. A bowl of tasty food looks VERY different to an empty bowl with slightly older food marks inside it. Can you reach a compromise- as long as they clear the table and put it by the sink, you will scrape the food out. Or provide them with a mask and disposable gloves for every time they need to empty a dirty bowl, and allow them to use clean cutlery to scrape it out into the bin/ directly into a clean fresh food waste bag .

Your child is bad with money- do you charge keep at all? If not, you could say that they need to give you x amount towards food, council tax, wifi, gas and electricity and then use that towards their food.

Your child can't self-regulate with the food you specifically buy for them, and eats other people's snacks: Can you make it so that all main meal food is shared and free for everyone to eat, and that every person in the house has a locked snack fridge/ box in their room where they can put their personal snacks. And perhaps get food deliveries every 3 or 4 days rather than doing a weekly shop, so that there is less in the house to be binged on at any one point.

I'm in a different country but my older child was a nightmare to live with in their early 20's. We managed to get a housing commission flat and they live on their own with support coming in. It's still not perfect, they're still overly dependent on me to manage their money (which I prefer because god knows what would happen if they took over control.

It's a horrible situation and I wish there were clearer pathways to support.

I hope GP and adult social care come through for you; your situation sounds exhausting and very very miserable for everybody.
In addition to what others have suggested, there should be a Parent Carer Forum associated with your local education authority's "local offer" type thing, often run via Facebook, IME a v good place for support, advice and handholding.

Yes - the level of manipulation is huge

We also have a situation where if I ever turn round and say for example ‘ no. That behaviour is wrong - stop immediately’ if it’s something serious they just crumple - fall to the floor dramatically sobbing ‘why are you so horrible to me ?? Why are you scaring me ??? ‘ etc etc it’s very dramatic and worrying so I have to then back off as I think asserting myself just to stop really unpleasant behaviour could end up where that I get accused of something? Which then risks my other dc. This is another reason I feel like this living arrangement has been outgrown

As an adult with high functioning autism, I would say you are absolutely being manipulated. Yes, home is a space not to have to mask, but the behaviours are nothing to do with masking. They just don't want to take any responsibility. If they can hold down a job and have exchanges like that with you, they can understand and follow basic household rules like washing plates they have used and tidying up after themselves.

The food and money thing may be more difficult due to forward planning/organisation. DH still has to help me with this. I would suggest the following:

Set up a direct debit with them re board to be taken on the day they are paid.

Sit down with them and plan one meal a week of their choice, take them shopping and explain dates etc. on any meat/fish. Then prompt them through preparation and cooking but don't do it for them. Gradually build up a repertoire of dishes and a folder of instructions and prompts.

When they have cooked others wash/dry and they do the same on their non cooking nights.

Ask them to write down what they are spending their money on. Divide the remaining pay check into a 'daily allowance' until next payday. They may still spend all in one go, but this may help them to organise/handle money. I still have to do this, I have 2 DC and am considerably older than your DC.

This.

But it's true.

And we need to believe it and understand it because you get the PIP interviewers who deny it's a possibility too and our children need that because of these discrepancies between intelligence and competency.

supported accommodation through local council. Also get them referred for a support worker

I think you need to set out on paper all the reasons this is a safeguarding risk to your other children.

Email social services. Note issues like the breaking down manipulation so you raise it. Remove that power.

Perhaps in order to learn he has to fail. Eat all your food, be hungry. No cleaning things, nothing to eat off.he knows all the theory but hasn't lived any of it

You are going to have to be very firm that your own health means you can no longer support him in this way.
Your relationship won't survive doing nothing either so don't feel guilty for having to do this

Everyone has assumed a DS but I think you haven't defined whether male or female in your posts and this sounds more like a DD to me. Your DC sounds incredibly difficult to live with and I cannot imagine how hard this is for you.

Is your DC medicated? Adhd medication or even anti-depressants for the OCD could be helpful if you can get DC to take anything.

I think you need to go in with the tough love. Explain that you cannot continue to live like that and that unless they can follow basic house rules then they need to find alternative accommodation. Remind them that you love them very much and you don't want your relationship to break down completely, as it could if this situation continues. Also remind DC that whoever they live with, there will be rules they have to follow. Even if they live alone they will have to learn basics like budgeting, cleaning etc. Let them know that you are available to help where needed, maybe going back to basics with signs, timetables etc could be helpful.

Definitely get in touch with adult social services and see what support there is for you and DC. If you explain the impact on your family they can hopefully help with finding accommodation.

I have a DS with adhd but he's only 13. He really does try but it's very wearing at times. Constant reminders for everything, mess everywhere, struggles with friendships but doesn't really know how to develop them. He hasn't started puberty yet and I'm wondering what new joys that will bring! There really is no support for parents or for those with ADHD. All we get are very infrequent appointments with the paediatrician, but that is just to check if height/weight ok and that the medication is at the right level. School have him in a support group to learn social skills and confidence but even if we look for paid support I can't really find anything suitable out there.

Jesus, kick them out they are taking the absolute piss and using their "sensitivities" as a stick to beat you with. They're adults and they can make their own way.

You've been more than fair and they are just a huge drain on you. You have no obligation to selfish, entitled adults.

Yes - the level of manipulation is huge

We also have a situation where if I ever turn round and say for example ‘ no. That behaviour is wrong - stop immediately’ if it’s something serious they just crumple - fall to the floor dramatically sobbing ‘why are you so horrible to me ?? Why are you scaring me ??? ‘ etc etc it’s very dramatic and worrying so I have to then back off as I think asserting myself just to stop really unpleasant behaviour could end up where that I get accused of something? Which then risks my other dc. This is another reason I feel like this living arrangement has been outgrown

This sounds like narcissistic personality disorder.

I think it seems from what you describe that getting them to leave may be the best of a choice of bad options. If you set a deadline of improve or leave, you have to be prepared to stick with it 100%.

No advice Op, but this seems like an impossible situation for you and your family.

I say this coming from a place where I can emphasise with your situation, but there comes a point where it seems like your DC is using their disabilities as an excuse to do what they like. Sounds like it is becoming quite manipulative

@SwordToFlamethrower I'm not sure you truly understand adhd and asd, and the effect they have on emotional maturity and executive function.

A person aged 22 with adhd could have the emotional maturity level of a teenager, and we all know what a joy they are . So they genuinely do struggle to cope with situations, and to organise themselves properly. It could take until around age 30 until they are emotionally an adult, and they will still struggle with organisation (probably for their whole lives). Add asd, pda etc into the mix and OP's DC will be struggling a lot.

This article and video explain it really well www.additudemag.com/real-age-adhd-emotional-maturity-executive-functioning/amp/.

With my DS I generally assume his emotional age is roughly the same as his younger brother (three year age gap). Though it does seem his brother has overtaken him a bit on this one at the moment (younger brother has started puberty and DS1 hasn't yet, which will affect brain maturity too).

I don't put unrealistic expectations on him, but I am strict about the none negotiables. He still has tantrums and breakdowns about things, mostly when he's had a bad day and the meds have worn off. I think I probably need to get my husband to watch that video, as he often can't comprehend how DS can seem so mature yet such a little kid at the same time.

Also, you wouldn't just kick out an adult child with a physical disability. You would support them to find suitable accommodation for their disability and support so that they can live as independently as possible.

So you don't kick a child with a mental health condition out with no support either. You go to social services and beg if that adult child will not cooperate with you.

OP, this sounds like a very abusive relationship. Your son (not sure as you keep saying ‘they’) is using and abusing you. You need to take decisive action to end this living arrangement for the sake of your mental health and emotional well-being.

@DinosaurOfFire This is exactly what I was thinking but you have worded it so well. I have two adult ND kids & we work on trying to all understand each other & the way we think / work. No shouting, no accusations. They have their own benefits money but donate to me so that I can buy / regulate food etc, it works for us. We also discuss money, bills & the like so that one day when I'm not here, hopefully they'll have a decent grasp of running a household.
They see me getting older & less mobile & frequently now offer to help with household tasks.
@perenniallymessy Your post strikes a chord too. You can't shout or reason your way with a ND kid, they just don't get it, do they? They have to know that we are the one person they can rely on not to fly off the handle - it's endless support!
@limeMeringue Read the above two posts & try & be a little more gentle with yourself. It CAN be done without endless strife! Hugs.

This sounds really tough @limeMeringue . The response to being told no, look up rejection sensitivity dysphoria. It’s something that affects an awful lot of people with ADHD/ADD to varying degrees. Once you understand it’s nothing to do with you it makes it a little easier to cope with.

If he doesn’t have learning difficulties and is capable of learning then tbh I think he is mainly just manipulating you because he can. He doesn’t behave like this at work or he wouldn’t have a job. Neuro diversity is not an excuse for being a shit, you still have to fit in with the world at large and can’t expect everyone to accommodate your every whim.

it’s time he left home (with support but not necessarily from you) because that’s what adults do and frankly you don’t deserve this abusive treatment any longer.

I do have a neuro diverse child and I am speaking from experience. It’s been a steep learning curve but both our lives have improved immeasurably since they moved out.

It does sound horrendous for you and the others and the family. Do you have a partner? Is this your daughter or your son?

Hi @limeMeringue, I just wanted to let you know there IS life after this!

My son is now in his mid twenties. Diagnosed with ASD, ADHD, ODD and is also PDA. An utterly vile combination.

He's always been hard work, but things got so much worse when he got to 16/17. His attitude was I'm an adult, you'll treat me like one. Mine was if you behave like a toddler, I'll treat you like one. He could also hold down a part time job, but was completely unable to understand living with other people means you have to contribute to the wellbeing of others in the household. He was incredibly abusive to me, including physically, which to some degree I could cope with, but he was also the same with his siblings.

He managed to go to college, where he received a lot of extra help, and scraped through somehow. Then he got accepted to do an access course at uni to study law. During this he moved his girlfriend in one day whilst I was out, and tbh I couldn't bear the thought of how he'd react if I kicked her out, so she lived here for almost a year, at my cost naturally!

The arguments, drinking, property damage through physical tantrums etc were horrific. We had a real ding dong one day, when I told him what I thought of him. Not kind, I know, but I believe it was probably building for years. We didn't speak for 6 months. I told him he had to move out.

So of course I was being unreasonable. We had tantrums and histrionics. By this point I was disabled, and couldn't support them anymore, so I laid it out and said you pay X amount per month or go. By chance he looked at uni accommodation, and they had one couples room available, which they took.

3 years later, they have their own little house, they're both in the final years of their degrees and doing well. Son has excelled, and is on track to get a first.

We now have a very open, close and loving relationship, and no-one is more surprised than me. I get invited regularly for dinner, or he will come and cook for me.

He told me thank you. He needed to grow up and realise what life was all about, and he thinks he would have destroyed himself and our family had he been allowed to stay. It did take a few months after he moved for him to contact me, but I just waited until he was ready. I also had someone from the uni who kindly let me know he was OK.

He now is anal about cleaning his house, a damn good cook, manages his money, even has savings and also has an almost full time job alongside his degree.

It's been such a long road (as is this post, sorry!), but I'd do it all again knowing how things have worked out.

Wishing you and your family the very best 💐

Op just to say, You can certainly speak to GP about a referral to adult social care, but you could also make a referral yourself on Monday. If you go to your local council's website and search for adult social care their referral process/ number should be listed. Just conscious that it can take weeks to see a GP at the moment and this might be a faster route.

Is there a Camphill Community near you that might help? www.camphill.org.uk/ I'm sorry for your difficulties
(btw, I find it very irritating when there is no 'gender reveal' and your son (I assume) is referred to as 'they' throughout - is there a reason?)