Asking adult dc to move out or change behaviour

[limeMeringue]

I’ve had enough. My house is treated like a hotel. I’m treated like staff. Every rule is broken . I can’t enforce any consequences as have run out of those I can enforce (eg no access to WiFi, not providing food so they have to buy their own etc etc )

Things have reached a head and nothing so far has worked. How do I go about removing them from the family home ? Do I even have to give notice ?
The other alternative is finding a way for them to change behaviour (but not NT so this is extremely difficult)
I’ve totally had enough.

'' when we did have camhs all we got told was ‘I only go because I like to talk about myself I’m not listening to them ‘'

This is like my son. He can learn nothing because he is resistance to guidance, advice, persuasion, self-reflection, influence..... I have never known anything like it. He can be told nothing. Perhaps he could learn from doing it the wrong way?
They have a forcefield around them protecting them from advice and support I think (PDA children/adults).

Can they learn from f8ck1ng it up though????? I don't know yet.

You must be able to get social services involved if he's unable to live independently. I haven't been through it myself but via family have heard of adults being assessed. And being provided supported living accommodation.

I do think he needs to move out. He sounds like he has the capacity to manage day to day with some assistance and moving out may help him to develop more independent skills and improve your relationship.

Good luck. It sounds so hard.

''I feel like we have a tangled mess of adhd, asd, ocd and being an arsehole''

ha, yeh, this is it. Part PDA, part arsehole. Couldn't unravel them now.

Sorry for jumping on your thread. Bon Courage

I just don’t know what to do even if I try not to ask anything directly I get screamed at am I trying to use reverse psychology and how dare I

I just wouldn't be screamed at tbh OP. I'd pack his shit and throw it out the window. I wouldn't be screamed at by any adult in my home.

You've got younger dc, this is almost a CIN issue for the younger one having an older sibling screaming at their mum, stopping them from showering etc.

This is why I think I need to seek help from the gp as it’s spilling over into everyone’s lives and it’s not ok

We have two DS with ASD and learning difficulties and I'm dreading once they hit adulthood as I can't see myself being able to care for them both for the rest of my life. GP is a good call. I would try and get a referral to adult social care. We have social care involved for respite funding.

My DS is 19, I've just had a disabled adult SS do an assessment on him ready for the future, they've suggested when the time is right supported housing with a support in twice a day (30 mins breakfast, 1 hour tea) 1 hour once a week to clean and 1 to shop. You really need to push them.

You are currently fire-fighting in an intolerable situation and this makes it very hard to do the things you need to do to move forward. I think you can ask adult social services for an assessment of your son AND a carers needs assessment for yourself. Make it crystal clear to them that you are suffering from carer breakdown, will not be offering any more help and that your DC must move out. Put a deadline on it with SS. Say 'on this day I will be changing the locks'. Do not feel gulity. Do not back down. Your DC is an adult and has actually made it clear they don't want your help. They need professional help now and you can best help them by asking anyone and everyone relevant (SS, support organisations for the particular illnesses, or mental health, , GP, CAB, local council disability support/welfare rights offices, what is available in your area and how your DC can access it. Sheltered housing, social housing with care visits, regular help from a community mental health nurse, may be available but you will have to be firm, and get advice to avoid being fobbed off. If you are fobbed off, remember your deadline!

My 15 yo has asd and pda traits as well. He is not abusive but he does have similar behaviour, not clearing up, Inconsiderate behaviour, money burning a hole in his pocket usually via gaming purchases.
I fear for the future , he just about manages school but struggles with additional demands so escapes into a gaming world
it could be similar with your son, his job places sp many demands on him so when he gets home he needs to find a coping strategy? He does well to hold down his job
I think as a pp has suggested a supported living place would work well

www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/adult-residential-services/supported-living

I think you're the buffer and the reality is, your DC won't learn because you're constantly there to pick up the pieces. If they live in supported housing, they'll soon discover that if they blow all their money in one go, that's it, there's no more food money. But they can do that at home because when the money runs out, they'll just take your food.

You're the buffer between your DC and the real world and probably the best thing you can do is to stop being the buffer! I have friends whose adult son (Autism/ADHD) had major anger issues. They tried everything but he still kept trashing the house and then he started tormenting the dogs and the younger DCs. They couldn't put the kids and family pets at risk any more and thankfully, supported housing was secured. He's honestly like a totally different person now. His independence has grown, he's polite, working part time and has just got a girlfriend. Sometimes the best thing you can do is let go.

On Monday, why not call adult social services for a confidential chat and see what your options are. Tell them you're not coping and you're no longer willing to provide a home for your DC.

Oh lord, the vomiting over cleaning plates has resonated with me. I think my son has ADHD (he told me he thinks he has it but doesn't want to go and get diagnosed). He can eat cereal but scraping any remains into a bin or having to wash it (or even having to put the bowl in the dishwasher) will have him gagging. Bizarre isn't it? I dropped him off at uni a few weeks ago and he refused to buy cereal because he knew he couldn't hack cleaning the bowl afterwards. Strange isn't it?

It's sounds very much like you need a social care assessment. We got ours when 'child' was 18 through the Local Authority.

They have a duty of care to identify vulnerable young people.

Along with this comes a carers assessment for you.

First point is your GP that may help with the carers assessment. Your surgery will have a carer liaison person who may be more informed. You should be on the carers register.

Getting social care assessment is either from the LA (education) or the disabilities team through Social services. You can self refer but it seems to carry more weight if the GP can refer.

I asked for 5 years for this. It did eventually come through and was a very thorough assessment.

Sounds so hard. We have a similar profile at home to you. The major difference is mine ND one is grateful, still can't/doesn't do anything but isn't confrontational. This helps although I'm still running to stand still.

I have a (younger) DS with a similar profile so you have my absolute sympathy. I think GP / social services is a very good idea. You must look after yourself first so that you are in a position to help everyone else.

Slightly leftfield suggestion, but would something like a caravan in the back garden work? So that you regain your home and can insist on your rules in the main house, but that he is responsible for his own cleaning / living areas?

Are there local organisations and charities like Choice Support who offer assisted living accommodation for those with additional needs? There is one near me where young people with LD flat share with support. It's a half way house between home and an institution and allows people to have freedom.

cerebra.org.uk/download/accessing-public-services-toolkit/

This is a good booklet which shows how to access health and social care services for children and young people.

www.ambitiousaboutautism.org.uk/

There's a parent resources section here.

You need both adult social care and carers assessments - your GP should help you to arrange it. My DD has some of these issues but not PDA I can feel your pain. My friends son is 18 has PDA he’s being assessed for supported accommodation; it can be the making of them.

This sounds like my sibling who is now in her mid 40s - part ADHD, part arsehole, PDA. Smart, charming and manipulative. Rude, inconsiderate, aggressive. Parents finally saw sense and told her to leave after more than a decade of her treating them like a hotel. She manages on her own in a flatshare (doesn't have the skills to live on her own) and funnily enough can follow the "rules" enough to get UC, P/t job, pay rent etc.

I think DD needs to go for the sake of everyone in your family but also for herself as the older she gets the harder it will be. The thing is my sister was able to go and live in a flatshare with people she knew ( I think from gaming?) and your DD would need to be with people who can tolerate her and who she trusts. Is there anyone like that?

I don't think the GP will do much other than make a referral. Social services might be more appropriate if they need help with housing? Are there any charities in your area that specialise in the neurodiversity (I'm guessing autism)?

I will begin by saying that DS is NT and I absolutely know that I have no idea of just how challenging your situation is and how stressful it must be.

But DS was a lazy teen around the house and I really worried about him heading off to uni because he seemed so incapable in some ways. But now he has to do it for himself - he does. He budgets, he shops, he cooks, he does laundry - because no one is there to do it for him.

Two relatives of mine do have ADHD - one severe - and they both live independently, hold down a job, manage their lives.

Has your DC ever had to operate without the safety net of knowing that you will provide, clean up, help out, make everything safe?

@limeMeringue another thing I've thought about doing is saving like a mad thing with the intention of buying a house with a garage and then getting the garage fitted out like a studio. Toilet, bed, sink. I would like it to be accessible separately from the house. In fact I think that is going to be my most likely outcome. I live in Ireland and my son is in a mainstream school, he hardly ever goes and he only bothers with maths and science subjects but ........ he would need to be a lot worse before I'd get any help. I'd never get him in to one of those supervised living places. He's just not bad enough. It's all on me.

There are probably techniques that could help with the money management etc but if they’re not going to engage with them it’s pointless. The entitlement is strong is it not!

it’s not the ADHD etc that’s the issue it’s the arseholeness.

The home needs to be a safe space for everyone who lives there including you and the other children; if one person is stopping that happening either they need to modify their behaviour (not happening) or leave. There’s good suggestions on here about accommodation.

Personally I would put locks on the food cupboards too in the meantime.

Who says it’s financial control? If it’s them, they seem to know about a lot about their rights. And if it is them, then yes you are being manipulated.

im sorry but I’d have run away by now. This is too much for someone to have to deal with. Give notice as soon as you can. Help find assistance, maybe assisted living, they have a job, they will manage. Don’t give in as this is not sustainable for you.