5 month old and 2 year old killed by family pet pitbulls

[eucalippy]

That the family had for over 8 years without a single prior violent incident. The attack went on for ten minutes leaving the baby boy and 2 year old girl dead and the mother with an "uncountable amount of stitches and injuries"

Stuff like this makes me so sad but scares me too, I've always been scared of big dogs, but it's something I try and keep at bay and not put on to my kids. My brother and his wife have 2 Rottweilers who I was petrified of at first but have learnt to be around, they are very calm but stuff like this makes me feel like I can never take the kids round there again because what if they just turn?

I know about the whole it's owners not breed spiel, but stuff like this brings that into question surely? You can never truly know what a dog might do can you?

Link if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about. RIP to those beautiful kids.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/baby-sister-killed-pitbulls-memphis-b2197336.html?amp

We had a beautiful, gentle irish wolfhound who loved everyone, well trained & loving , however IW were originally bred to hunt wolves, so we would never, ever leave him with any children. He never even chased our cat, they would lie down together.

I'm sorry you've clearly never experienced the joys of owning a dog.

I think it’s significant that they had had the dog for 6 years before the eldest child (2yrs) was born. I’m not a dog expert but I imagine the presence of the children changed the dynamic. Did the dog get jealous?

I hate seeing Bullys out and about and leave the area if I can. I'm also sure the owners love that. It's like wandering around with a weapon and owning the place in their eyes I suspect.

It is a certain type of owner. There is one local to me and she 'loses' the dog frequently. Posts on Facebook from people reporting it roaming. She breeds them and always has posts from friends saying 'oh has she got out again' and laughing at the people who comment about the breed. Irresponsible and a disaster waiting to happen.

I think it’s significant that they had had the dog for 6 years before the eldest child (2yrs) was born. I’m not a dog expert but I imagine the presence of the children changed the dynamic. Did the dog get jealous?

Absolutely bang on - and its the same case after case, the shock news for dog professionals is not that these dogs have injured or killed someone, it is that it hasn't happened sooner, and it DOESN'T happen more often, given the number of dogs like this (badly bred, badly kept, poorly trained, suffering incredible stress) that are out there.

We see this utter shitshow day after day, we've been shouting about the risks of a variety of things for DECADES...

We're told we're over sensitive, we're being dramatic. When we point out a video of a kid climbing on a dog, and the dog growls and the DOG is told off for that, is incredibly dangerous and can lead to a dog that bites without warning, we're told we're 'haters' and we know nothing.

Watch this if you can (child does not get hurt or even frightened) www.facebook.com/darerescueinc/videos/5359794047461948/

Do you see the body language before the growl? It is clear to me that the dog is unhappy LONG before she growls, how long will she remain polite about that for, when all that happens when she does clearly say 'get off' is she gets yelled at.

How quickly do you think she could bite that child in the face, compared to how fast the parent could put the fucking phone down and grab the child?

So yeah, it shocks the shit out of us that more dogs DON'T bite people or kill people, because people do some absolutely fucking horrific things to dogs.

1000 percent.

@KenzosFlower Plenty of people live without cars. You could too, if you had to. There are people who will argue (and I’m not one of them) that they NEED their dogs.

But that isn’t my point. My point is that the risk ‘assessment’ is skewed and they logic is flawed. Dogs are not dangerous. Some dogs are potentially very dangerous and we know which ones and who (as a general demographic) own them. Cars in general are not dangerous (although much, much more so than dogs) and we know what causes it and who does it in a similar way. But we don’t ban cars. We put legally enforceable safeguards and systems in place to assure (some) competence on the part of the person who drives them, and limits on the models and safety of those allowed on the road, and we enforce them. I see no reason why approach shouldn’t be taken with dogs. Instead an irrationally disproportionate ‘no dogs with children’ or ‘pet dogs should be banned’

I'd keep my kids away from the rottweilers for this reason. My sister has 2 dogs and we never see them

A.and e staff will always tell you it's the friendly family dog that's suddenly bitten a family member.

And if that dog is a Yorkie tea cup it's going to do a different amount of damage to a staff, Pitbull or rottweiler.

’Never trust a Terrier, be it a Pit Bull Terrier or a Jack Russell Terrier, a Terrier is a Terrier, you can NEVER trust them’.

That’s what my Dad’s then head of security, John, said. He had spent decades working in the US military, Special Ops, jumping out of helicopters into the jungles of South America with a dog strapped to him, chasing the drug cartels. He had extensive experience working closely with many breeds of dog and was very particular about the security dogs which lived on our property (I was never allowed to pet them).

When my parents separated and I moved to the UK with my Mum, my Dad bought me a pet Jack Russell for when I was back in LA visiting him. It came from a dog rescue place. John saw it and sent it straight back. ‘Never trust a dog you haven’t raised with your own hands since he was a pup’ was his other saying. So John selected a puppy Newfoundland and trained her himself for me. She was the most amazing dog.

This is a really sad situation. I don’t know a lot about dogs as I have always been a cat person myself. But I feel that there are always signs even if they are subtle ones. My cat for instance is a very gentle cat but there are definitely signs he gives with his body language well before he gets to the point of reacting (usually batting with his paws claws retracted).

It always starts with his tail flicking, Then his shoulders tensing, then his ears go back and he clenches his teeth. When his ears go back that’s when he has had enough. This is usually when he starts lightly slapping people as a warning to back off. We have only seen him escalate passed that to hissing once and that was years ago. My niece got a little too handsy with him.

I imagine dogs must have similar signs as well?

We always impress upon our toddler do not scream at the cat, pull his ears or touch his paws or face. (He hates his face and paws being touched.) We also always try to make sure she never backs him into a corner or gets rough with him. We know it is likely that even with all that accidents can and probably will happen. It is likely inevitable that at some point in the future sooner or later she will test our cats patience and he will likely scratch her.

I feel with dogs as they are bigger animals it is even more important to be in tune with their body language and make sure their comfort and needs are respected.

The GSD in that awful video is a very restrained dog.
The cretin filming hasn't a clue!
The child is bouncing around on a sensitive part of a dog's spine, and dogs are not riding animals.
the dog was panting, and not happy, but a very restrained dog who had the good grace to warn.
Idiot owner.

Plus the dog showed the whites of her eyes, her ears were flickering, she was panting and overall 'Tense' while being used as a trampoline/rocking horse by the child.

Father is a tool.

Loads of people seem unable to read what their pets are telling them. I have heard people say their dogs are friends when it looks obvious they barely tolerate each other. Or that their dog is aggressive when they insist it is only playing.

My dog is a cross between an American Bulldog and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, I think he's the softest most pathetic dog ever but I'm still very aware of the damage he could do

If you’re going on that since then what about horses? They can snap too. And do serious damage. Ponies? Donkeys? Ferrets? Even tups get nasty at times.

The reason we see so many of these dogs in the headlines is that they are so powerful. They are physically large and imposing, they have a strong prey drive, many of them enjoy attacking and killing (dogs are evolved from wolves and coyotes - this are predators) and are selectively bred to bring this killing instinct to the fore. Proportionately, more people are bitten by small dogs, but they don't do nearly as much damage.

Anyone who has a dog will know that for their size , even a small dog is much stronger than a human of a similar size and weight - large dogs are phenomenally strong. It isn't possible to physically pull them away from a fight/attack. When their blood is up they don't even hear anyone shouting at them to stop. They will even bite their owners without even being aware of it.

Their instinct is not just to win a fight but to kill their opponent (in this they differ from wild canids which are content to win and send their opponent away).

Personally I would never keep any dog I couldn't pick up if necessary. I can't understand why anyone would want to keep an animal as a family pet which would be uncontrollable if it turned on you. The number of people who adopt mastiffs/rotties/staffies/ american bulldogs/akitas etc - especially when they have no idea what the dog's previous life has been like and what might trigger it - and then leave them with children - honestly, it just amazes me.

These are not necessarily bad dogs - they are just often not the right dog for a family dog - they need proper training and to be kept under firm control.

And there are FAR too many bad breeders about, who disregard temperament and health, and just see £££££££ signs.

Yeah. I don't subscribe to the argument that it's owners and not breeds. You never read about a miniature poodle suddenly snapping 🙄 They can nip is provoked, sure. But they don't start a frenzied attack that leaves children dead 😔

There are some breeds of dogs that just should not be kept around young children. And ANY breed should be well trained and always supervised.

One was also killed by a pomeranian.

www.nevadaappeal.com/news/2001/dec/19/pet-pomeranian-dog-kills-6-week-old-baby-girl/

Any dog can kill - but ultimately the ones responsible are the adults who leave poorly trained dogs and children together. (Or any dog and child together, for that matter)

@WiddlinDiddlin

That dog was stressed before the video started. A child should never be allowed to sit on a dog! Dogs do that to each other to show dominance or correct poor behaviour. The dog is tolerating it so patiently, because the child is a juvenile and then is told off for growling. A dog should never be told off for growling! You should LISTEN and remove the discomfort. It’s not aggression, it’s expression of boundaries. All live beings are allowed to have boundaries. The next step is for the dog to pin the child down and nip if it doesn’t submit and behave with good manners. I am assuming the dog has no safe child space to retreat to (or it must abandon its family to do so) and has been told off for not allowing the child to ‘play’ with it before. And there is no attempt to teach the child that a growling dog should be left alone, either. Poor dog. Poor child. The chances are that will escalate to an air snap or a nip and the dog (with no warning growl, as it’s been discouraged) will be rehomed as ‘aggressive’ before long. When just a bit of management, and empathy, they could all live in the family home with a wonderfully patient pet for the child to grow up with. What a horrible thing for a dog who was fantastically patient, but didn’t want to be a bloody rocking horse!

We have beagles, and they are very vocal. It’s not always possible to tell if they are playing or not! My daughter will always back off if they so much as let out a satisfied groan in their sleep! They have never growled at her, but they don’t need to. They know if they display the slightest sign of needing space, I will step in a make it for them. An once of prevention is worth a whole ton of cure!

Aaaaawww yes let’s breed the dog that’s most likely to end up in the pound and euthanized. She sounds like she’s not only uneducated enough to be a good breeder but it’s also selfish and doesn’t think of the need of the animal.

My dog is a lab and he has a beautiful temperament, but he is also massive, weighs over 7 stone, huge feet & a head like a bowling ball. He has accidentally stood on.my bare foot and broken a toe twice and gave me a couple of black eyes and suspected concussion jumping up to catch a fly as I was bending down to put shoes on.
Dogs are ace, but they are animals and honestly there should be some sort of licence to prove that you know how to be an owner.

It's frightening how ignorant people in general are regarding dogs.
The ''Only playing '' thing where one in being relentlessly harried by the other.
People just haven't a clue.
Also, people buying puppies from places that are far from ideal, where the mother is unseen, and where they haven't been handled and socialised by humans in the first crucial weeks of their lives.

Some breeds do ''Mouth sparring'' with each other that looks alarming, but isn't, {Pic of mouth sparring here}

Any dog can bite.
''Those canines are not for picking mushrooms'' as one trainer said decades ago.
It's up to humans to be the responsible ones.
A small dog like a whippet can splinter wood with their small, fine, jaws.
Think what damage a Bull breed can do.

The very reason that my son hasn't visited my friend's home for a couple of years now. He's 14, but I've seen the struggle that she and her husband have to even get the dog off the couch when it doesn't want to move. It's not an aggressive dog, but no one would have any chance of stopping an attack and I'm not willing to put my child in a situation like that. She loves the dog and I haven't told her the real reason that he no longer comes with me, she just thinks that he's in the sulky teenager phase