5 month old and 2 year old killed by family pet pitbulls

[eucalippy]

That the family had for over 8 years without a single prior violent incident. The attack went on for ten minutes leaving the baby boy and 2 year old girl dead and the mother with an "uncountable amount of stitches and injuries"

Stuff like this makes me so sad but scares me too, I've always been scared of big dogs, but it's something I try and keep at bay and not put on to my kids. My brother and his wife have 2 Rottweilers who I was petrified of at first but have learnt to be around, they are very calm but stuff like this makes me feel like I can never take the kids round there again because what if they just turn?

I know about the whole it's owners not breed spiel, but stuff like this brings that into question surely? You can never truly know what a dog might do can you?

Link if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about. RIP to those beautiful kids.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/baby-sister-killed-pitbulls-memphis-b2197336.html?amp

A dog - any dog - would rather run away than fight.

People saying they’d never have a dog and a child - would you never drive a car, or never use a knife if you’d heard of a child dying in an accident with one? It’s obviously your choice, but it’s seems very irrational to me. I consider the biggest danger to my child to be other peoples driving, and there is nothing, nothing, I can do about it if some twat has a few pints and drives home or is on their phone at the wheel.

But a dog (who has no desire to bite, and they don’t ‘just turn’ there’s always a reason and usually plenty of warning) Is vanishingly unlikely to bite anyone if you know what you are doing (And it’s not rocket science) and take sensible precautions (which are not onerous). The amount of people who, out of misplaced love and naivety, allow their dogs to be potentially dangerous shows how patient and wonderful dogs are. If cats were treated in the same way, there would be child deaths daily. All dogs could kill. The fact they so rarely do, despite often being kept poorly shows how wonderful they are, not how dangerous they are.

I’d be up for licensing with a pass/fail course, fines for transgression and poor ownership and remedial courses for transgression - rather like speeding. I also think we should be working to actively eradicate the bloodlines of all the bull breeds. There’s no point making them illegal. The sort of people who want powerful ‘aggressive’ dogs are predisposed to treating and training them poorly and illegality and a bad rep makes them more attractive, not less. The dogs should be found, seized, neutered and rehomed if necessary (given that they will become much less attractive to the owners and likely further mistreated if they aren’t an income steam)

puppy farming should me much more targeted for regulation, as puppies who have an adverse events before six weeks (and many are sold on too early to maximise profit) are at much higher risk of having issues, as are poorly bred puppies. The adult dogs are also dumped when they cease to be profitable and obviously also have issues with people.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-two-mauled-death-pet-25200106.amp

This one. Two XL bullies, one weighing an mind boggling 14 stone and both kept fighting with each other, she was told by multiple family members to get rid of the dogs, she wouldn’t listen - and she had two kids at home.

The SM comments are all from thick idiots defending the breed

NINE people killed in the UK this year alone, by dogs. What an absolutely horrific way to die.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stop-killer-dogs-nine-tragically-28165570?int_source=mantis_rec&int_medium=web&int_campaign=more_like_this

Why is the government doing nothing?

I want to see a ban on all breeds capable of biting a chunk out of us. You can't defend yourself against these breeds, and no child could fend one off.

I don't let my children out to play without supervision because of the risk of these dogs.

Stupid false equivalency. We NEED cars, and we NEED knives. We do not need dogs. Certainly not bully breeds, huskies, alsatians, etc.

These reports are tragic, but I honestly don't understand why people roll these stories out in defence of large dogs ('small dogs kill too') on threads where people are discussing large breeds killing or maiming grown adults. What relevance do they have here, really?

One of those stories is a week old baby, the other was three weeks old. Clearly absolutely zero defence against anything. I'll take my chance against the Jack Russell in place of these horrific bull breeds, thanks.

It doesn’t sound like the children were alone as the mother was apparently torn to shreds and is in critical condition.

I have a 5 month old golden doodle puppy (standard size, so already quite big). I also have three young kids, the youngest being 3.

The kids are obvs not left unattended with the dog and have been taught that although he looks like a big cuddly teddy, he absolutely isn't a toy. But this story suggests the mum was there and it made no difference due to size and breed of the dog. Those poor kids. How horrific.

I agree. There does not have to be an incident, you can tell what character your dog has.
I can think of two friends with dogs both seem fine generally, calm and lovely. The truth is one starts barking if he feels threatened by kids and the friend (who does not have kids) keeps him away from children as she worries that he might go for a child in the future. The other dog is genuinely calm around children and totally unbothered by noise, loud shouting and kids running around maniacally.

Going by where this incident happened, they may not have been indoor dogs - large, rural properties, a desire/need for guard dogs and the associated behaviours - so not how we'd usually imagine dogs living.

Dogs, or any animal, can turn, just like humans. How many normal, everyday people, suddenly snap and attack or murder? The same with animals, only I doubt they have any internal reasoning to try and stop it.
Such a sad story, and I think the dog owners/parents will always feel such guilt, but you never really know what may happen.

You just need to do things like make sure they’re not left alone etc just like you’d not drink and drive.

Yes, that worked well for the mother in this case? Did someone say she lost her arm? At any rate, all reports are that she was 'critically injured' trying to stop the attack (and clearly failing) for 10 minutes. To be honest, with what she will have seen, she will probably wish she'd died too. Unimaginable.

Stupid false equivalency. We NEED cars, and we NEED knives. We do not need dogs. Certainly not bully breeds, huskies, alsatians, etc

These are working dogs and should have always remained working dogs. It’s so irresponsible to
have certain breeds as family pets

This is part of the problem.
The types of person 'Drawn' to these breeds that just want to look 'Tough' and intimidating.

Poorly educated, unthinking, often banned from keeping dogs beforehand, but they go out and buy another.

A friend had two children badly hurt by an English Bull Terrier.
It was in city, she was just leaving the park, and the dog barrelled out of the park and leapt at her child, overturning the buggy.

The children were bitten.

The owner came up and was beating the dog over the head with a chain to get it to release.

Police were involved, dog seized.
Owner was banned for dog fighting.

These dogs are idiot magnets.

The children are now teens, but are still traumatised by certain types of dog.

Stop spouting nonsense. There are a huge number of support animals out their. Guide dogs, hearing dogs, medical alert dogs, the list goes on. My own dogs are my support animals and without them I probably would have killed myself a few years ago when I was in crisis.

Yes some can be a risk when not trained or properly supervised. But dogs are incredible animals and the vast majority don't kill.

There are videos on you tube of bull breed attacks against humans and children.

They are terrifying.

It's a complete myth that Staffies 'lock their jaws'. No dogs do this.

thedogvisitor.com/do-staffordshire-bull-terriers-lock-their-jaws

So no one should own a dog?

Any dog can potentially be dangerous of course - but pitbulls were literally bred to tear each other apart in a fighting pit (clue is kind of in the name for anyone who seriously struggles to understand this 🤦‍♀️) so you’re multiplying that regular dog biting risk by a thousand. It’s just beyond stupid to own one. Even more stupid to own one with children in the home too. Those poor children deserved so much better.

With all these stories of all sorts of breeds biting people, why do we have dogs at all? Have people been brainwashed into believing these mutts are man's best friend? They are just parasites.

Fine by me.

That thought had not occurred to me.

My Grandparents had a Staffie that was 1 when I was born, back in the 80s, runt of the litter, very small.

My Grandad would take the dog out for a long walk when we visited for the first few months of my life, although that wasn’t often as my Grandmother wasn’t comfortable with us going there.

I don’t know specifics but I do know we weren’t even in the same room together till I was a toddler, never unsupervised, my Grandparents took photos constantly and there isn’t a single photo of me and the dog until I was 5.

We weren’t left alone in a room together until I was 12 and she was an old lady, and only then because I was a book worm and not a loud, boisterous child. She was soft as butter and I was devastated when she died a few years later.

My Uncle had two Staffies, he was going away for the weekend with work (unavoidable) and they were both 14 at this point, I was 18. He asked me if I wanted to dog sit for £100. I said yes, my Dad said no, I’ll do it, she can stay with her Grandparents, not a chance I’m leaving her alone with two dogs all weekend. Possibly overkill being as they mostly snoozed all day and I was 18, but as a parent myself now, I think he did the right thing

That page is so glitchy, I can’t read it properly, but as an example of poor (but well meaning) owner ignoring a lot of red flags and mistreating her dogs it ticks a lot of boxes. I can tell you from what I gleaned that as well as being dangerous and powerful breed, that dog had unmanaged resource guarding, hyper-attatchment, separation anxiety, was being kept apart from the family a lot of the time, was puppy farmed and poorly bred, it’s owner was unwell and the dog had limited experience of good boundaries at home. It was also adolescent, and had a history of fighting with other dogs in the home. It was a seriously stressed animal. The owner knew there were problems and ‘was going’ to get a behaviourist. Only she didn’t. (Probably because they are expensive and it’s hard work) It did not ‘just turn’. It was screaming for help. Probably for most of its life. I don’t think it was a situation which was ever redeemable, to be honest, and I feel sorry for everyone involved.

The astounding thing is not that the dog killed someone (and I feel for the family. It must be awful) but that it hadn’t done long before now. People need to understand that a dog which can be loving and gentle CAN ALSO be a deadly weapon if it’s mistreated. And it’s not a baby, or a dolly, and treating is as one is mistreatment. Because it is a dog.

What would life be like if we got rid of everything we don't need...

Alcohol is relevant in a lot of child abuse, child injury and child death - I'd be more than happy to ban that outright, we don't need it, I don't drink it - lets ban it, more trouble than it's worth.

Motorbikes - no one needs those, two young people have died locally as a result of motorcycle accidents, ban those - people can get the bus or drive a car which is safer.

No one needs to watch TV and they are dangerous - 18000 injuries a year (american stats) from falling tv's and a child dies every two weeks from falling tellys. Since 2000, more than 200 kids have been killed by TV's. Ban them for sure.

Stairs are ridiculously dangerous, we could have one storey living, ramps and lifts (and that would be far more accessible for all) but we keep building stairs despite the dangers.

The world would be a shitty, miserable place to live in if we only ever did exactly what we need, only when we need to.

That's not true they all give signs. But they can be subtle. The body and face shape of the bill breeds can also make it harder to read. Throw in two small children who your attention is more focused on it would be possible to miss theses signs. Unless the dog had a sudden medical episode there will have been signs.

I'm beginning to think that all owners should have to pass a competency test before having dogs (and children). So many people cannot read their dogs body language. I confess until o had my current rescue dog there was a lot I didn't know. The more I learn the more I realise I don't know about dogs but I actively spend time learning. I want my dogs to be safe and comfortable.

It is possible for children and dogs to interact safely. My Labrador spent much loved time with my friends baby when she was small. When she had just started to sit up and had learnt to throw she learnt to throw the ball for the dog 🙄 and my lab would push it back with her nose. She was extremely gentle. When the baby could stand up in the play pen she would play pounce from a distance (she never was anywhere near the baby) but my friend daughter would squeal with delight so she would do it more. They have become great friends but they were closely supervised and both were taught how to behave around each other. There were very strict rules around when and how they interacted.