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5 month old and 2 year old killed by family pet pitbulls

359 replies

eucalippy · 08/10/2022 09:17

That the family had for over 8 years without a single prior violent incident. The attack went on for ten minutes leaving the baby boy and 2 year old girl dead and the mother with an "uncountable amount of stitches and injuries"

Stuff like this makes me so sad but scares me too, I've always been scared of big dogs, but it's something I try and keep at bay and not put on to my kids. My brother and his wife have 2 Rottweilers who I was petrified of at first but have learnt to be around, they are very calm but stuff like this makes me feel like I can never take the kids round there again because what if they just turn?

I know about the whole it's owners not breed spiel, but stuff like this brings that into question surely? You can never truly know what a dog might do can you? Sad

Link if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about. RIP to those beautiful kids.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/baby-sister-killed-pitbulls-memphis-b2197336.html?amp

OP posts:
33goingon64 · 08/10/2022 13:36

Have been watching a lot of crappy videos the last few days (in bed with Covid and it's all I can manage, along with MN) and the number of videos of dogs with young kids is amazing - anyone commenting that it's not safe being put down with 'it's cute, he'd never hurt a fly' etc. I'd love to know if any owner of a dog who bites or kills a child will EVER say 'oh yes he does get snappy sometimes'. They will always say 'he's usually so gentle I don't understand what went wrong'.

Hoppinggreen · 08/10/2022 13:42

ChickenDippersUnite · 08/10/2022 13:33

It's all well and good saying don't own dogs, keep them away from children etc. but what are you supposed to do should a large dog attack while walking through a park or in the street? It's always a worry when I'm with my kids that at any point a dog could easily attack, so genuinely, what would I need to do?

It’s very very unlikely, most dog attacks happen at home

CulturePigeon · 08/10/2022 13:43

The rule is that you never ever leave a child alone with a dog.

I would question whether an adult's presence is going to make any difference if an American XL pitbull decides to attack.

Why do people keep these dogs? Really - why??

Saying that many breeds of dog can be dangerous may be true, but so many, many times the attacking dog is one of these monsters. Poor things - they are the product of human manipulation in breeding, but you only have to look at them...

I would feel terrified if one even came within sight, because I would know that if it decided to attack there would be nothing anyone could do.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 08/10/2022 13:43

You allowed your child to threaten the dog when it was asleep. Of course he bit. It’s a bit like grabbing a child that is asleep in their bed and expecting them not to scream.

Exactly. Just leave sleeping dogs alone. It's really poor parenting to allow a child to stroke a dog whilst it's sleeping. It's a good thing the dog was rehomed, rather than stuck with such an irresponsible owner.

Kissingfrogs25 · 08/10/2022 13:44

I would never take my children anywhere with two Rottweilers present. It should be illegal to have certain breeds of dogs near children giver the number of deaths and injuries.
Why should you try to get used to it?? It’s a major risk which is why you are so worried. I would be honest about it with your db and he can meet you at your house or elsewhere without the dogs.
Even if your dc survived they could end up with life changing injuries.

nestofhill · 08/10/2022 13:45

That's incredibly sad @HoundofHades They're lovely loyal dogs, in the right hands, GSDs. Second only to labradors, in my own limited experience.

Cats23 · 08/10/2022 13:46

I've always said ' If it has teeth, it can bite'!
BUT certain breeds can inflict more damage than others ofvourse and it is v.often the breeds with the locked jaw that caise serious injury in death.
I have never come across a ' Dangerous' staffy, my JRT was far more ' aggresive'- Though towards othees dogs not humans....
I've owned a few breeds- Never trusted any of them...
I hate owners who say ' Oh my dog won't bite' ofcourse it can.

Wideawakeandconfused · 08/10/2022 13:47

A dog can turn in plain sight. I was bitten at two years old by my grandmothers dog. A lovely breed of dog and it was luckily a snip. Being in the same room and watching will not help as you’re reactions will always be a few second behind a dog. Keep dogs and children separate. Different rooms at feeding time. Do not have the dogs on the sofa/bed. Do not allow children to bother dogs while they are in their beds.

Large breeds desired for their muscles by those that choose to abuse them for their looks and strength need to be banned. They are working dogs who need a job. They have no place in a domestic situation being breed and breed and put in situations where they can’t cope. Either bring back dog licenses with strict restrictions or ban them. Yes, the way they are trained and raised accounts for a lot but let’s face it, the majority of people who own these dogs do so for breeding and intimidation. Rescues are full of them now. Many of the main stud dogs have their ears clipped. I would guess this isn’t due to medical reasons but rather to look scary.

My two old boys (terriers) have become a little resourceful in their old age. They are hard of hearing and their sight is going. They have occasionally gone for each other at dinner time and it’s awful to see. These are small terriers. I would never attempt to break them up. Now they are fed separately and no, they don’t get fed around the kids. I can’t imagine what it would be like seeing these huge dogs fighting - no one stands a chance. Ban is the only real way to go.

WiddlinDiddlin · 08/10/2022 13:48

nestofhill · 08/10/2022 12:58

The solution is not banning more breeds/types - if it were, we wouldn't be where we are now. We've got 30+ years of evidence that that doesn't work.

So what's the alternative? Education on dog ownership? A licence of some sort?

The XL dogs featured so frequently in the death lists could surely only be kept safely by a minority of specialist owners?

Education certainly.

Government taking seriously the current issues of anyone being able to call themselves a trainer and our woeful failure to uphold our animal welfare legislation when it comes to dog training - it would seem that abuse is just fine if you call yourself a dog trainer.

I submitted multiple videos of a dog trainer repeatedly picking a dog up by its ears and slamming it into the ground (because the dog broke its sit), him talking to camera telling the viewer he was tricking the dog into breaking the sit SO he could punish it... lifting the dog by the neck on a slip lead whilst at the same time slapping it sharply across the nose... repeatedly yanking the dog off its feet whilst it was running full pelt the other way on a long line (again connected to a free running noose round its neck) causing the dog to scream in pain.

The police said not their problem.
The RSPCA eventually visited - he told them he didn't know it was dangerous or abuse and wouldn't do it again. And then carried on exactly as he had been for years.

In theory our animal welfare laws would allow for prosecution for people like that - in reality, it just doesn't happen, because it is left to a charity to do it.

Social Media is now full of trainers who are great at producing snappy video content - who use aversives that store up problems, cause dogs pain etc... and they're super appealing to new owners or anyone without any dog behaviour knowledge. It is nigh on impossible to explain to people what the risks are and that there are alternatives, you just get a barrage of 'well you're just jealous' and 'where are your videos' (my videos would make watching paint dry look fun, because positive training and effective behaviour modification is NOT dramatic to watch!).

Stronger penalties for dog related incidents - if you injure or kill your child by not strapping them into your car, by drunk driving, by leaving them home alone when they're too young, you're likely to go to prison.

Choose to leave your child in the care of an addict, in the home of a dog who has already injured a child, who was bought knowingly as an illegal breed, and you know is dangerous (no question of that, they asked for the dog to be shut outside!).... and despite all those red flags and concious choices to leave the child there, when the child was killed, neither parent answered legally to that negligence, nor did Grandma, in fact the only person who did time was the dogs owner who was NOT present at the time of the incident and he did time for owning an illegal breed (a matter of weeks) not for the death of the child.

If I trusted any government to run a scheme properly AND to enforce the policing of that scheme properly and not allow local authorities to do piss all...

Then possibly a scheme where to own a dog over a certain weight, you'd have to have proof of passing a dog training/behaviour/responsible owner course and prove you've the financial capacity to pay for damages via insurance or a savings account.

The flaws with that scheme are local authorities would not enforce properly, and the government would probably pick the Kennel Club to invent the testing requirements and they're stuck in the dark ages, couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and this would require the regulation of the dog training industry which they seem reluctant to do.

It is too much work, in short. Particularly to police those who simply won't abide by the rules - and unlike a car that can be seized and destroyed if its uninsured/driver has no licence/etc, these are real live animals who will suffer.

Banning dogs appears much easier and is a sop to the public who want 'someone to do something' - the fact it doesn't WORK is irrelevant... it looks good, it looks hard line and pro-active. So its likely what will happen in the end.

UnicornPug · 08/10/2022 13:48

I taught the family of the baby killed by the Jack Russell in Telford. Her younger siblings came into school that morning in absolute bits. Lovely, large family with many years experience of dogs and babies. It was a complete tragedy for all concerned.

But they are the reason that my 20 month old nephew has never met my dog. I don’t trust ANY dog with a baby or toddler. He goes to his sitter’s house when DN visits. DN has met other dogs and that’s his parent’s choice but it’s my choice not to allow him to meet mine. I will never let my dog anywhere near a small child. He’s not a big dog- he’s a bichon mix and looks like a teddy bear but he isn’t. He’s a ball of anxiety and although he’s never bitten a person he’s snapped at other dogs. Why would I risk it?

love4189 · 08/10/2022 13:56

this is why I'll only own very small breeds which we can overpower if
needed. Our dog weighs 9 pounds and is gentle but if she decided to "turn" could
be kicked off easily. A large pitt bull, x bully, german shepherd etc: not a chance.
It has the potential to overpower
and to kill. I also refused to get a dog until
our youngest was 9, as even a tiny breed can harm or kill a baby/toddler.

PurpleWisteria1 · 08/10/2022 13:56

Owning a dog should be licensed.
If you have younger children living with you part or full time it should be made illegal to own certain types of dog.
Absolutely disgraceful. Those poor innocent children who had no say in the animals living with them. Owners are 100% responsible. No different to me to leaving them in a paddling pool of water every day unsupervised. Most days they would be ok until they are not.

TemporaryChange1 · 08/10/2022 14:05

Yesterday I saw a man out with his toddler, with them was two big muscular dogs. One a pitbull and the other an 'XL bully' I believe it was called. Docked ears.

I crossed the road as I didn't feel comfortable walking past them. I had a frightening incident a couple of years ago where I was threatened with such a dog so I'm wary.

I couldn't help but feel uncomfortable about the toddler living alongside such animals, I mean the owner certainly didn't choose them with best interests in mind - he'd had the poor dogs ears docked ffs.

I'm not going to click the link as it sounds too upsetting. Those poor children.

oakleaffy · 08/10/2022 14:06

Pitbulls are bred to fight.
We have a gentle breed ( Sighthound) but genetically they are hardwired to chase squirrels and rabbits.
You can’t go against basic DNA drive.
I’d not trust any Bull breed around children no matter what the propaganda about “ Nanny dogs”.
They were bred to bait Bulls and each other
American Bullies are capable of mauling an adult to death.
Awful story.

Lopilo · 08/10/2022 14:09

25% of adults in the UK have been bitten by a dog their lifetime. Considering the majority of households in the uk don’t have a dog, that does suggest that dogs do bite quite a bit. I don’t think that means people shouldn’t own dogs but I do think they should be realistic about them and acknowledge that any dog could bite and big jaws inflict big damage.

Coyoacan · 08/10/2022 14:19

Poor people, but this is one incident that happened on the other side of the world. I don't think I could be doing with getting paranoid about everything that has ever gone wrong all over the world. I don't have a dog, but there are tons of families with dogs just in the building where I live, fortunately without a bother. I'd be more scared of petrol stations

Softplayhooray · 08/10/2022 14:29

rainbowbubbles86 · 08/10/2022 09:48

I don't understand why people risk mixing babies/children and dogs.

I agree...sad to say but our golden retriever once lost it, and I mean lost it, at a baby in a pushchair. He was so sweet as well, maybe it's because he was older and age affected him, perhaps the loud crying distressed him.

I remember the moment, he was on an extendable lead but tied up outside a cafe, and the extender cable somehow broke as he was straining so hard and must've been 2 foot from the baby's face, going mental. Thank God that lead hasn't extended any farther. I was only a kid myself at the time but I'll never forget it and how no-one would've gotten there in time.

Not saying that golden retrievers are a dangerous breed at all to kids- but if that can happen with a normally very docile breed I think it's russian roulette to have staffs, rottweilers etc around little kids.

NeedAHoliday2021 · 08/10/2022 14:41

We have a cocker spaniel who is the gentlest little boy. I’d never ever leave him alone with a baby or toddler. We waited until youngest was 9 before getting a dog.

reigatecastle · 08/10/2022 14:45

rainbowbubbles86 · 08/10/2022 09:48

I don't understand why people risk mixing babies/children and dogs.

I don't either. It's probably difficult to rehome a dog if you get pregnant, but if you have a baby you don't get a dog.

And any dog can snap, whatever the breed. My mum had a friend whose dog was absolutely fine. One day she was decorating her house and dropped the paintbrush. The dog went for her and ripped a piece out of her arm (probably an exaggeration but she needed stitches). The dog was PTS as she had a small granddaughter and wasn't going to risk a repeat with a small person. It's a pity all dog owners aren't as responsible.

reigatecastle · 08/10/2022 14:47

Not saying that golden retrievers are a dangerous breed at all to kids- but if that can happen with a normally very docile breed I think it's russian roulette to have staffs, rottweilers etc around little kids

Gosh - well that proves the point that it can be any breed. Retrievers are the sort of dog that generally don't bother me because they mind their own business. But it is different with small children.

Not just dogs either. BIL had a cat and when they had a baby the cat was obviously very jealous and they were concerned, so rehomed the cat.

reigatecastle · 08/10/2022 14:49

If I trusted any government to run a scheme properly AND to enforce the policing of that scheme properly and not allow local authorities to do piss all

A lot of local authorities have got rid of their dog wardens to save money. Just as dog ownership has increased by about 25% since before covid :(

LimboLass · 08/10/2022 14:49

Like I said earlier it took ONE bite from a 5kg lap dog to nearly kill me

Okay granted. But how many stories that appear in the news are about 5kg lapdogs killing people?

The simple fact of the matter is that the d0gs killing people are the big fighter types.

heartbroken22 · 08/10/2022 14:55

People need to open their eyes. Dogs can never be man's best friends. They're a different species.

ClaireEclair · 08/10/2022 14:58

The comedian Bill Burr talked about having to give up his Pitt bull when he and his wife had a baby. They said the they brought the baby home and “introduced” the dog to the baby and the dog growled. They immediately arranged for the dog to be rehomed with an animal trainer. He still went to visit the dog and she apparently thrived in a no child house. They couldn’t take the risk of keeping the dog.

Oiseaux · 08/10/2022 15:00

Breeds that are capable of seriously maiming us, or killing us, need to be wiped out. There is no need for such breeds, ever. Not worth the risk.