5 month old and 2 year old killed by family pet pitbulls

[eucalippy]

That the family had for over 8 years without a single prior violent incident. The attack went on for ten minutes leaving the baby boy and 2 year old girl dead and the mother with an "uncountable amount of stitches and injuries"

Stuff like this makes me so sad but scares me too, I've always been scared of big dogs, but it's something I try and keep at bay and not put on to my kids. My brother and his wife have 2 Rottweilers who I was petrified of at first but have learnt to be around, they are very calm but stuff like this makes me feel like I can never take the kids round there again because what if they just turn?

I know about the whole it's owners not breed spiel, but stuff like this brings that into question surely? You can never truly know what a dog might do can you?

Link if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about. RIP to those beautiful kids.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/baby-sister-killed-pitbulls-memphis-b2197336.html?amp

My nans dog was a border collie btw

Agree with this,

A lot of attacks on children happy with adults present but a lack of understanding of body language which indicate the wind up to a dog snapping or attacking. It can even happen sometimes that dogs have been disciplined for growling so do not have this warning as a precursor to biting, or have grown up with mixed messaging that encourages possessiveness, play fighting or tug toys for example.

I have also seen scenarios where the dog is a "man's dog", controlled with somewhat domineering methods, but women/children in the house have no control of the dog, or there is an inter dog dynamic which humans can get drawn into - trying to break up fighting between dogs for example, or dogs fighting over attention or a dropped piece of human food for example, and the human/child is dragged into a melee.

It is not as simple as not leaving kids and dogs alone together and all will be fine.

They are one ugly looking dog- they often do bite training, lift weights. This isn’t a pet. It’s a bloody monstrosity and we created it.

I’m also here to say Staffordshire Bull Terriers cannot ‘lock’ their jaws!!! It’s a myth.
please read, research and educate yourself before putting damaging comments onto a public website.
This kind of misinformation is dangerous

It’s really rare for a dog to ‘attack’ or ‘turn’ without warning. Dogs exhibit A LOT of body language first. People ignore it. Some people film it and think it’s cute. Some people tell a dog off for growling, so it doesn’t warn people it’s unhappy and goes straight to snapping.

Dogs that are reactive are usually incredibly distressed and anxious all the time. They give signs. One of mine is. She just afraid of a world she doesn’t understand, and thinks is out to get her. I work very hard to build her confidence and NEVER put her in a situation she feels she needs to bite her way out of. (She has never bitten at all)

There’s always cues. ALWAYS. It’s never out of nowhere. And it’s nearly always ‘bull’ something. Because those dogs were bred to fight. No dog wants to fight. They will (if they have to) fight for food, to breed or to defend themselves. The instinct
not to has had to bred out of them. Their response to pain has had to be bred out of them. Their jaw strength has been bred in. Their body strength has been bred in. ‘Bull’ type dogs are a perfect storm of killer characteristics (IF they are triggered, which they mostly aren’t). They should all be neutered and the breeds eradicated. There no need. It’s inhumane to fight bulls with dogs and no need to perpetuate a man-created breed.

Thanks. I know. Just opening a huge can of worms again. Xxxx

Yes. I know of a greyhound that bit a child (child stumbled and startled dog). Greyhounds are known to be gentle and always recommended for families but they startle easily and this is what happened here. Any breed can be frightened and bite! Unless you can keep dog from child at all times I just don't think it's worth the risk. I'm sticking with cats whilst my son grows up (and I'm someone who grew up with dogs who I adored and still to this day I miss terribly)

Could you give me some dog safety tips for my children please?

They're a weapon, not a dog.

@WingingItSince1973 I would be very worried too, don't feel guilty for taking action to protect your daughter and your grandson. It is not worth the risk.

I think your concerns for your DGS are entirely understandable, @WingingItSince1973 . I've lived with dogs for most of my life, and I would be anxious about it too.

Shar Peis have a rep for being bitey, too. One was banned from my local pub because it kept snapping at people, and eventually got someone. Thankfully, it was an adult, and a nip, rather than a full-on bite, but it was still unacceptable. It got worse after that and they had it pts 2 years later after it bit the owner's wife quite badly.

Honestly, it’s down to terrible owners. I don’t believe for one second that a previous well behaved, calm dog attacked and killed out of the blue. There would have been major warning signs that the idiot owners would have ignored. Tbh if you get a pit bull as a family pet you already go down as being a moron in my eyes.

I’ve owned a difficult rescue for 8 years. I would never leave her alone with my son. Although she has never shown any aggression to him at all I know her triggers and can see when she is getting stressed. The house has baby gates all over and she has her own safe space where her bed is. I am extremely careful because I don’t underestimate her but it irritates me no end when I visit family or friends with their ‘friendly and gentle’ dogs who show (to me) enormous signs of stress when around the children and the parents just laugh and even encourage it and frankly it’s an accident waiting to happen. I think there are a lot of people who do not understand a dog’s body language or why they behave in certain ways and it always seems to be the ones with the “friendly” dogs 🙄

This kind of misinformation is dangerous

How, exactly? I don’t disagree that their jaws don’t ‘lock’ but how is this misinformation dangerous?

It is the breed though, thats the problem. Pit bulls, Japanese Tosas, American Bully, Akitas etc were all bred for fighting. Those genes are strong in the same way Greyhounds, salukis, Afghans, Whippets have strong chasing genes. My Saluki cross will often scan the distance and fix on things way in the distance, he doesn't always chase but he is acutely aware of movement.

Little dogs are FAR more vicous and dangerous than big dogs as they breed to be violent (most hunting dogs, racing dog, fighting etc... are smaller breads like jack rusell, dachshund, spanial, whippet etc...) where as big dog where most breed for rescue rolls and work rolls because they are HIGHLY trainable (alsations, retrievers, labradors, st bernards, collies, huskeys).

I had to have hundreds of stiches and 3 on going surgeries from just one bite from a lap dog, he went for my throat so dont think 'size' matters at all, I grew up around large dogs and worked in a vets when younger and have only ever been bitten by small dogs.

Echoing what others had said, sure again dog breed can bite or attack a child, but it’s the same kinds of breeds you see again and again as actually doing enough damage to kill. If a pit breed or mix is startled and reacts by biting, the outcome will be more severe than a beagle’s bite. Pits seem to also go berserk in these cases - this case says the dogs attacked for 10 minutes. It’s like they don’t stop until the prey stops moving.

I have labs, and a toddler, and they don’t interact unless I’m actively facilitating. This means dogs are in their own separate gated part of the house where they can watch and be spoken to while my child is running around and on the floor, and there’s no opportunity for the baby to trigger the dogs (who are very chill but after all, are still animals who use their mouths to communicate).

For these horrific deaths, it sounds like the baby was on the floor/on a low couch for the dogs to reach. For me, my baby would always be in his cot behind a shut bedroom door if the dogs are out of their area/backyard. I’m shocked by people who allow their dogs to roam while their baby is on a mat wiggling around and putting them at mouth level.

My mum, who was an absolute dog whisperer, taught us the following:

Never touch a dog a you don't know, or without speaking to owner first.

If the owner says it's ok, hold a fist out towards the dog and let it have a good sniff before stroking it.

If any unfamiliar dog approaches you, fold your arms as the hands are the easiest bit for a dog to get hold of.

If you want to walk away from a dog that is barking or growling, turn side on and keep your arms folded.

Never, ever, disturb a sleeping dog.

The Kennel Club used to do a guide for use in schools, it might be worth seeing if they still do.

Also, I saw that the children’s uncle was also there? What was his role?

Agree with pp who suggest this definitely wasn’t likely the ‘first incident’… I expect they were ‘snappy’ before and it was ignored.

Im not saying ‘snappy’ dogs will all kill or attack randomly. But it’s a trait that is indicative of their character and it should be addressed.
tragic story x

When I was born my mum already English Bull Terrier (pointy ears) we grew up the best of friends and he was so protective over me and we had him until I was 10 (he was 12)
Now she's got an American bulldog that she treats like a baby. But he's a BIG fucker and I flinch when he acts like a clown jumping around no idea of his size.
She asked me a couple of months ago how we can introduce ds1 to her 2yo gigantic dog. She wants to do this soon because, she feels bad for the dog when we visit he is closed in the back of the house and knows he's being being left out of something

Then I read these stories and it brings it home how on guard you have to be all of the time

Grayhound like whippets are TERRIBLE and dangerous around small children, they should never been recommend as a family pet for people with young kids as they have a natural instict to chase and attack anything small and/or suddenly fast moving like babies and toddlers.

I just do not understand people or a world where status symbols are more important than health, and aggression levels have become a status symbol. Let’s face it, that’s why these pit bull types are popular. Family dogs they are not.

Those poor kids and that poor family and thank god I don’t have to have those dogs anywhere near me and mine.

But if a pit bull was the one that bit your throat, you would be dead.

It's really not the breed; it's a simple fact that jack Russell's, Labradors, retrievers etc... do more attacks but obviously dogs with more pounds per bite do more damage when they do snap/turn.
Rottweilers have a 338 pound bite force
GSD have 266 pound bite force
Staffordshire bull terriers have 228 pound bite force
But that doesn't make them bad breeds, they are all very much loving family dogs in the right environment.

I look after dogs for a living, and I would never trust any dog with small children.

I have been bitten by a Shih Tzu, a Cockapoo, and a Spaniel. My DH has been bitten by a Labradoodle and a Beagle. We have never been bitten by a Rottweiler or larger breed. So much for stereotypes! For this reason, if I was King of the World, I'd ban anyone from owning a dog, if they had children under 8 years old.

We owned a Siberian Husky, who was as soft as can be. However, she did not like small erratic children, and she positively hated my alcoholic friend who was often stumbling unsteadily. She never attacked, but would show her teeth.

Dogs like calmness and often children are the opposite of this.

When I'm walking dogs, I am often in the position where I have 3 or 4 dogs on leads, and someone will allow their dog to run straight in to us and to jump over my dogs. Many dogs hate this, especially if they are leashed and unable to run away. People are oblivious! They watch me struggling to control 4 uncomfortable dogs and don't seem to realise the chaos that their dog is causing. Happens almost on a daily basis.