Large religious families

[carrotsinthepan]

I was watching something on YouTube and it struck me how many large families are religious families (especially Christian in the US and orthodox jewish in various places) I was just thinking that they seem to attract less criticism for the number of children they have opposed to non religious families .
I was also wondering why various religions promote large families as what I watched didn’t go into that ? I find it fascinating but have nobody in rl to discuss it with !

I have a large family and often get criticised and I was thinking - can this now be shut down if I say ‘it our religion ‘ when questioned even if it’s not !

i just quote Jesus: “Have you not read that in the beginning God made them male and female? For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and together they shall become one flesh.”

As for abortion, I have always been against the old Roman and Spartan principle of killing infants. I’m sure we don’t like siding with King Herod.

It still goes against your assertion that Christians don't use the old testament to best people with, when right now they are using them as justification for taking away people's rights.

Genesis states life begins at the first breath. Exodus talks about a man causing a woman’s miscarriage and having to pay a fine (to the father obviously) for the foetus but if he kills the woman paying with his life. As in foetus = property , but woman = a life. But that’s OT that you ignore. The NT says this about abortion…. (Tumbleweed).

Exodus does also talk about keeping slaves though so perhaps best to ignore it. Except the NT also talks about keeping slaves (Epistles, Matthew to name two) so… or are those bits irrelevant too? How does one know which bits are irrelevant? It’s almost as if you can just find passages to support whatever position you want to take. Well knock me down with a feather (preferable to a lightening bolt anyway).

What rights are Christians taking away in our society? I haven’t noticed!

Well as the NT society was made up of 60% slaves then it was probably a good idea for the letters to have some instruction of how to live as a Christian in those societies. You seem to have the idea that the letters are written in the abstract but then an awful lot of people seem to think that these were written by a guy in the 20th century. These are written to real people with real problems. Obviously slavery was very much a part of life and there was nothing you could do about it so you had to learn to live in that society. A bit like living with the Internet today. Yet people like you just want to interpret the Bible as if it was written today in our society without any regard for the setting it was written in. It isn’t a very intelligent way of going on if you don’t mind me say. We don’t interpret any other documents in that way

Thank you, I'll have a look for it.

Like I said, the Christian Instute on their website cites the old testament as justification for section 28, banning same-sex marriage and the age of consent not being equal for gay and bisexual men. The organisation trying to ban abortion and harrowing women on Scotland also cite the old testament. And that's just in the UK.

Sorry I have not noticed any changes to the law recently. I have noticed left wingers harrowing delegates at the Tory conference with threats and spitting. Is that changing the law?

Where did I say there was? You said that Christians do not use the old testament to hit people with. I simply provided examples where they have. Fortunately, despite the campaigning of certain old-testament waving Christian groups, many of the old homophobic and misogynistic laws were repealed. But there are still campaigns to bring them back.

You make these assertions but the problem is that where are the campaigns that you darkly mention apart from the product of your own fevered imagination? What I do see is campaigns by women’s groups for women’s rights and safe spaces which are threatened by extreme legislation. Ironically many of the women campaigning are themselves gay!

Given Jesus’ apparent socialist tendencies (caring for the poor and sick, a sense of communal living and eating, preaching love for your neighbour, encouraging the paying of taxes), I am always confused by Christians that lean hard to the right, which as far as I can see do not share any of the so called Christian values. But then I’m sure they can find passages to support their views, however despicable.

www.christian.org.uk/theology/apologetics/other/section-28/

www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63033402

web.archive.org/web/20110131105443/www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/historic/x-lg/reports-00/lgr00-06-08.htm#3

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/homophobic-c-of-e-blamed-as-vicar-quits-698662.html

web.archive.org/web/20150922114100/www.bbc.com/news/uk-18405318

There are of course countless other examples of Christian groups campaigning against gay rights, abortion rights and women's rights. I'm surprised you've never heard of any.

By ‘the hard right’ I assume you mean those with views to the right of Marx and Lenin?

So I assume the recent surge of women - many of them gay - campaigning for women’s rights is also wrong in your opinion?

Why would you assume that? It has nothing to do with anything I've said.

The point is you said that no Christians use the old testament to beat people with I demonstrated that they do. You can keep putting words in my mouth all you want.

Just that you appear to assume that it a Christian has no right to protest or to have issues of countries to try and change society. Everyone else appears to have. Such a view appears inconsistent wJust that you appear to assume that it is a Christian has no right to protest or to have issues of countries to try and change society. Such a view appears inconsistent to freedom of conscience in a free society.

Just that you appear to assume that it a Christian has no right to protest or to have issues of conscience to try and change society or to prevent change. Everyone else appears to have. Such a view appears inconsistent wJust that you appear to assume that it is a Christian has no right to protest or to have issues of countries to try and change society. Such a view appears inconsistent to freedom of conscience in a free society.

Stop fucking putting words in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort.

It's my fault, I shouldn't have engaged. It's like a naught toddler trying to get attention. Just ignore.

You mean you refuse to see the inconsistency of your position. The problem is that you people have no logical argument so you resort to this sort of thing. Name calling. Never mind it is what you guys do all the time for lack of an argument

My position is that some Christian groups have used the old testament when campaigning against gay and reproductive rights. That is my position, not whatever one you make up for me.

And you were dishing out plenty of personal attacks earlier in the thread.

Also, not sure what you mean by "you people". Sounds insulting.

as what you’ve gathered includes one quote from Leviticus from the Christian Institute, and actually traces the history of Judao-Christian belief on the subject, I don’t think when we campaign for the right of the traditional family (male - female) which is now under constant attack that we are being unreasonable. Of course in a democratic society you are really saying that there should be no pushback from people of conscience? And that when people exercise their conscience and say that things like killing babies in the womb are wrong then they should keep their mouth shut?

In what way is the life of male-female families under attack exactly @Kellie45 ?

I am saying that some Christian groups tried to stop gay people getting their legal rights. They tried to stop homosexuality being legalised, to keep section 28, to prevent an equal age of consent and to stop marriage equality. And the CI are not the only ones to cite leviticus.

I never said anyone should keep their mouths shut, why do you continue to put words in my mouth?

There are still plenty of male-female families, it's hardly under attack. I do t see anyone trying to ban heterosexual marriage, or calling straight people deviants, or wanting to ban books featuring straight couples. There are no countries where it is illegal to be straight.