Large religious families

[carrotsinthepan]

I was watching something on YouTube and it struck me how many large families are religious families (especially Christian in the US and orthodox jewish in various places) I was just thinking that they seem to attract less criticism for the number of children they have opposed to non religious families .
I was also wondering why various religions promote large families as what I watched didn’t go into that ? I find it fascinating but have nobody in rl to discuss it with !

I have a large family and often get criticised and I was thinking - can this now be shut down if I say ‘it our religion ‘ when questioned even if it’s not !

I listen to a variety of podcasts by Mormon women and the cultural differences are fascinating.

Environmentalism hasn’t made the same inroads in the US as in Europe - laundry advice always involves a tumble drier; gift giving is huge; paper plates are a normal standby; lots of plastic tat; and loads of upcycling videos where cheap items are rendered unrecyclable by layers of paint.

I grew up in a conservative Catholic environment, but most women were pragmatic about avoiding pregnancy to some extent and there was an underlying vibe of “sure what would a priest know about that” beneath the outward respect. And I never came across anyone, despite being in convent schools with some deeply disturbed nuns, who talked about Jesus like a neighbour.

There’s a strange parochialism about them, despite blogging and broadcasting to a worldwide audience, they seem completely unaware of wider cultural standards.

I’m reminded of Mr Quiverful, the skint clergyman in Barchester Towers (Anthony Trollope) whose wife pleaded with the ghastly bishop’s wife for a better paid job for him. ‘Fourteen children, Mrs Proudie! And scarcely bread!’
(He did get it in the end, and the book is also very funny along the way.)

@Bearsporridge thats interesting, cI follow quite a few religious Christians and jews on YouTube and they seem sooo environmentally unaware. They use so much disposable kitchenware and a tumble drier, and they live in Texas! That makes sense then if eco measures haven't quite reached them.

Are there many religious Jews in Texas?

@Maireas there are several orthodox (but not ultra orthodox) communities in Texas, they tend to live in the streets surrounding the synagogues and Jewish schools. The YouTuber is jaroffireflies if you are interested.

Ok, thanks. I didn't know that.

I watched Bringing up Bates about a family in tennesee with 19 kids, who are now having lots of their own kids at a young age. The parents decided to let God decide how many kids they had rather than use contraception. I guess they feel its good to produce lots of new Christians.
I do feel sorry for one of the daughters though. They are brought up to think that having kids is everything but she has been unable to conceive after 6 years marriage. She out of all of them wanted to have many kids as she loves them. It's hard for anyone to be unable to conceive who wants to, but even more so if you've been brought up to think it's the be all and end all.
They are home schooled and I think the mum does a decent job of it. Then they go to a Conservative Christian college to learn a trade. Girls have to wear skirts and dresses at the college as they do at home. But I'm not sure they have the same opportunities as if they went to normal school and uni.

Isn't the idea behind large religious families just so theres more of them than other religions.

I once read about a Christian sect in America were all forms of sex were banned. They died out 😁

I have 4 they are grown up now (youngest just gone to uni) I got lots of comments about our large family too.

I had a lot of stock answers to comments

"Don't you have a TV?"
"Really? You'd rather watch TV?"

'Rather you than me"
" Yes I utterly agree I'm happy its me over you too"

Why did you have THAT many?
Because we wanted to

Don't you think about the environment?
Yes I do a lot that's why we used cloth nappies why we only have 1 car and why we encourage the children to cycle. What do you do?

I only once had tax payers comments put on to me and I pointed out that 1 we did not claim child benefit and 2 he would need someone to pay for his pension.

In the end though you cant change it they will think what they want. Their problems imo my children are amazing.

I’m reminded to of the fact that this is fiction!

For Jews it has to do with repopulating after the Holocaust. Also, none of the orthodox families I know are the feckless benefits sort, which can make large families unpopular.

I have followed some of these families for a while. The Duggars and the Bates families are linked to an almost cultish church group I think it is IDLP and was led by someone who has had abuse charges linked to them and they have close links still but are more careful about showing it. The next generation are accepting things like wearing trousers.

If you really want to go down a rabbit hole then visit the Rodrigues family and you will see the extreme.

They put their wombs into Gods hands and he decides how many children they have.

I see no difference between organised religion and a cult. Catholicism, for example, is just a ghastly death cult that went global. Like all cults, the people involved want more followers. The more children its followers have, the more chance there is of the cult surviving.

Contraception has done more to reduce human misery and suffering than anything I can think of. It has also done more for women’s rights than all the feminist articles ever published. The Bible and the Koran are hideous, Bronze Age texts which view women as cattle - i.e there to breed. When a woman has only one or two kids, she is able to save money, educate herself, pursue a career, etc. When she has six, and lives in a filthy hovel, she is too ignorant and poor to assert herself, which is how the priests and Mullahs want her to be.

Also, the world is insanely overpopulated. In 1800, there were a billion people on earth. By 1960 that had tripled to three billion. By 2000 it had doubled to six billion. We’re now at eight billion and heading for ten - in a world of declining fish stocks, peak oil, mass extinction and climate change!!! It is utter madness. Unfortunately, any attempt to reduce the world’s population is always hampered by the religious.

If I was a billionaire, I would build a family planning clinic in every village on earth. It would do more to reduce suffering than any other single act.

With respect to the Bible you are showing yourself completely ignorant. Like many people you probably haven’t even read it

Which parts has Suetwo been ignorant of? I’ve found most religious people haven’t read much of the bible either or any of the historical context around it. Given the negative impact it has had on many people’s lives and continues to have through the mixing of politics and religion, people are allowed to be critical of it.

Religions generally seem quite sexist and they all worship a male entity. Unsurprisingly a woman's main role is to produce children and satisfy her husband's needs. I can't agree with anyone having a large family, or even more than two children, it is utterly selfish. Unfortunately, I think these are the people who will inherit the earth. The unselfish ones will be outbred, which is a loss as they are probably the ones with a higher IQ and are more useful.

Those of us who know the new Testament know that rightly applied it has been a force of liberation. For goodness sake, the first witnesses to see Jesus alive women, something revolutionary at the time. ‘In the Messiah there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, slave or free.’ Put that in the context of the society it is written in and you will see ! Those of us who actually do some reading fine things like this out. In fact if you read Tom Holland’s Dominion you will perhaps see it too where our concepts of human rights comes from.

I’m glad you’ve had that experience. But given that millions of woman have been subjugated by the same book for thousands of years you’ll have to forgive me for disagreeing with you.

And just tell how millions of women have been subjugated by this book ?

Really? Really? I don’t have the time or the will to do this properly but as a quick run down:

• a woman blamed for original sin and the reason Adam and Eve are cast out of the garden.
• Man shall lead the church on earth - a lot of religious organisations still take this literally including the Catholic Church
• “Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord” - I mean that is pretty clear really isn’t it.
• Witch hunts throughout history
• Women on their period = unclean and dirty.
• Abortion rights - I say no more.
• contraceptive rights - see above
• continual references to a woman’s place only as a mother/a wife.
• No women leadership, only as a support to husbands

You may interpret your holy book however you like, but to pretend others have not used it for thousands of years to oppress women is naive at best. Whether you believe it’s the word of God or not it’s been heavily edited by men for men again and again and used as a weapon against women. Even now, women are meant to be virtuous and kind and motherly or they are scorned by society. That all stems from “Christian values”.

As an aside, how long have you been Christian out of interest?

Correction - God blames man for the sin in the garden.
i tree sting then that some of the leaders of the early church mentioned by Paul were women.
husbands love your wives at a time when women were regarded as a chattel. You need to read verses in the context they are written in. The word means cooperation in Greek and I have no problem in cooperating with my lover!
There is nothing about witch hunts in the New Testament - you obviously have never read it
there is nothing about women’s periods in the new Testament either although in the old Testament it does give them the dignity of not being violated by men in their period which was unusual for the time
nothing about contraception in the Bible
abortion is killing babies and obviously you think that is right - The ancient Romans and Spartans used to kill their babies which were unwanted and we do the same
The fact that you think that there is continual references to women only as a mother means you have not read the New Testament.

Oh for goodness sake, the doctrines of Karl Marx are responsible for 100 million deaths in the last 200 years. Your statements about the Bible prove you do not know frankly what you are talking about concerning it’s origins. I don’t see any harm in women being kind of virtuous anyway. If they have kids it’s a good idea that they are are motherly, isn’t it? How do you like them? Totally objectionable? 😀

nothing about contraception in the Bible
abortion is killing babies and obviously you think that is right - The ancient Romans and Spartans used to kill their babies which were unwanted and we do the same

Fucking hell, way to prove PP's point.

... conveniently skipping over the entire old testament ...

Isn’t it just as simple as the fact some religious groups don’t use contraception, believing that children are a ‘gift’ from God?

It was different in days gone by, obviously. My father is one of 14 children. Irish Catholics. There WAS no contraception, so there was little choice. My grandmother told me in her later years that if there had been the contraceptive pill in her day she would’ve taken it!

My Aunty used to clean the house of an orthodox Jewish family and the woman of the house was 40 with 12 children and was secretly taking the pill as she couldn’t face anymore kids.

Sorry you prove my point!