To think that a lot of talk about 'boundaries '

[Skelligsfeathers]

Is just shorthand for being really selfish?

I am staggered on here sometimes when I read about how little people will do for each other, how little they will put others first.
And it's always dressed up as ' having boundaries'.
Well, you know what, your boundaries won't help you when you're n the shit and YOU need some help. Just be prepared.

I think it is really . Sad

What's an example OP?

There's a very thin line between boundaries and selfishness. I've said for a long time that "having boundaries" is a sugar-coated term for either selfishness and/or controlling behaviour.

Meh.

I tend to find that people want to cross boundaries for social cohesion, wildly ignoring the fact that they're making people uncomfortable.

A frequent one is drinking. I saw a man drinking water only because he'd been ill. He got nagged and nagged and nagged to have a drink. But asserting his boundary wasn't hurting anyone.

Most of the time people will be MORE social if their boundaries are respected, not less.

Always offer people options, always accept a no. That's what respecting boundaries means to me.

Being selfish isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s possible to have boundaries and put yourself first and still be willing to help people when they need you

We're all selfish. Every single thing we do for for ourselves, including those seemingly altruistic things.

30 years in helping here and it's all because it makes me happy.

Just because your script is different and different things make you feel good, doesn't make them wrong.

MN is obsessed with boundaries. I usually eye roll when people on here bang on about them .

And yes I agree, it's an excuse to not give a shit about other people.

Well, not really, but I do think boundaries are presented as the answer to your problems. Truth is more often that you ask your mother not to let herself in to yr house and leave books on your bed when the hall would have been fine, and all Hell will break loose you'll get the silent treatment, be cast as the perpetrator et cetera be smeared, manipulated, shamed, blamed and rejected.

Boundaries swap hurt feelings for hig drama 😞

Always offer people options, always accept a no. That's what respecting boundaries means to me.

I agree with this. As someone who was brought up to think I ought to put everyone else's needs/feelings before my own it's taken me many years to realise that actually it does not make me a bad person to consider my own needs/feelings too. This is what 'boundaries' mean to me; it's about my feelings/preferences being respected by myself and others. That doesn't mean that I won't ever put someone else first- but it isn't the default.

If you know a taker in your life, someone who will take all your time, energy, efforts and sometimes money too if you let them, then boundaries are essential. Usually they’re put in place once you’ve known someone like I’ve just described and if you don’t put them in place, then they’ll suck the life out of you.

Maybe this does come across as selfish, but if you have a taker in your life then you become quite guarded about what you’ll do for others incase they try and do the same.

Hopefully you’ve never known anyone like this OP, but if you have, you’ll understand why boundaries are essential for some people.

I somewhat agree OP, but I think the problem is with use of the term. People who naturally maintain healthy boundaries don't need to use the term or give it any thought. People who have trouble maintaining healthy boundaries may need to intentionally set and maintain rules for themselves and others. They often get it wrong because social behaviour is complex and if you can't do it automatically then you will probably get it wrong. So the people who are talking about boundaries are often using the term to justify behaviour that looks a bit off, while everyone else is using them successfully but invisibly.

This is very well articulated and I agree wholeheartedly.

Someone asked for an example. So refusing to help someone in desperate need with short notice childcare/a lift to school etc because it doesn't suit you and you think they should have back up arrangements like you do (call any family member, 17 of whom live nearby). You base this decision on the idea that if you help this once they'll expect it all the time.
That's not having boundaries, that's being selfish.

On the flip side of this, someone constantly expects you to look after their kid and makes repeated requests for last minute school pick ups, or turns up at your door asking if you'd look after them for half an hour but has form for turning up four hours later after a long lunch. You say no. That's having boundaries.

There are also people who take the piss with your time and expectations. And if you have someone like that in your life, it's good advice to set boundaries. Some people need that permission to say no, because of the feelings of guilt and obligation.

But it's like a lot of things, overused, misused and then becomes an excuse or cliche.

Your post does read a little like you've come up against someone's boundaries and don't like it though....

I think @TheYearOfSmallThings has put it very well.

I would also add that if you are living your life with an addict of any kind, explicit boundaries really are essential and not a matter of selfishness at all.

Totally agree.
People who think others are selfish, usually mean " Im not getting my own way"
Sneering at other peoples boundaries is a pretty good sign of a CF.

Meh. We’re all selfish at times. When posters come on AIBU it’s usually in relation one particular situation. For all anyone knows the poster may say yes to everything else asked of them, yet because they’ve said no once they’re condemned as horribly selfish and doomed for a life of loneliness.

Except of course it doesn’t work like that. Saying no to someone in a particular instance doesn’t mean that someone is purely self serving, or that they won’t in fact have plenty of people willing to help them should they ever need it.

If anything it’s ‘be kind!’ and ‘karma’ that are liberally used on here as a tool to hammer this idea that someone (usually a woman) should always be willing to bend over backwards to accommodate whoever may be asking, and live a life of service.

Yes, this. I know two people who talk about boundaries. They both seem to swing from one extreme to the other and either come across as complete doormats or aggressively assertive.

But those hurt feelings will build up over time leading to resentment and potentially feeling anxious, undermined and unvalidated and you will likely erode your emotional connection to your mother. If your only reason for not asserting the boundary is your mother’s reaction you are neglecting your emotional needs in favour of hers. I suffer hugely from fear of conflict and am working on all of this myself but I can see now the answer is not to appease. Even if you do just appease her all the time to avoid big drama you will most likely eventually put a foot wrong, the drama will happen anyway, and you’ll feel even more angry and resentful because of all that time you spent carefully trying to avoid it.

To me 'boundaries' would mean I am not obligated to answer the door to a charity knocker - but I can also personally donate to charity of my own volition. Boundaries and selfishness do not go hand in hand.

People with boundaries can be unselfish, people without boundaries can be selfish.

Everyone has boundaries. You will have boundaries even if you haven’t thought of it like that. There will be certain lines that you have that if those close to you crossed them, you’d have an emotional reaction such as sadness, anxiety, anger, fear, discomfort etc. And all relationships need healthy boundaries. If someone communicates their boundaries that’s them trying to keep you in their life, not push you away.

Oh, and there’s definitely a sense that for some people the worst thing a woman can be is ‘selfish’, and that we should fear the term ever being applied to us.

The enduring problem is that there are always arseholes who misappropriate and subvert anything good for their own selfish uses. Then use this to further dominate decent people.

There is a massive difference between boundaries and selfishness. You can still put yourself out at times while being clear about the boundary between what you can realistically do and what you cannot without burnout or resentment.

Oh, absolutely this. We all have to be good little girls and never be selfish.

Fuck. That.

People who naturally maintain healthy boundaries don't need to use the term or give it any thought. People who have trouble maintaining healthy boundaries may need to intentionally set and maintain rules for themselves and others.

Exactly this. I think a lot of people are brought up without any way of thinking about saying "no" other than as a selfish or hurtful act. Having a morally neutral way conceptualising oneself and one's needs and wishes in relation to others, and a term to use for that with isn't loaded with blame or shame, can be extremely helpful.

I'd add that using the term "boundaries" isn't a moral Get Out Of Jail Free card and it doesn't mean your decisions won't have consequences.