Were you taught social niceties as a child?

[tomorrowalready]

This may seem strange but watching the Queen's funeral reminded me of something I have been curious about. For background I am a woman, over 60, my mother died young and my father was unsocial to say the least. Relatively recently I noticed that many if not most women automatically reach behind and make a smoothing motion over their hips and thighs when sitting down even when wearing trousers. I have only become aware of this from watching television hence my mention of QE's funeral coverage. I notice Charlotte did it on getting into their car on leaving the funeral and her mother also. I honestly have no idea if most women do this in daily life or how they know to do it. Presumably taught by mothers/female relatives but has it always been so? I mean were others my age consciously taught and passed it on or has it developed more recently? I never understood about handshaking either: when and how to do it, who starts and finishes it , why so much significance is assigned to it.

To be clear I am not worried about this just curious if parents generally consciously teach such niceties and how they know how to do it.

@mathanxiety thanks, new one on me!

I too went to a school where you had to stand when another teacher entered the class room. Independent school. Also not allowed to call the teacher 'Miss' but by full name eg Mrs Taylor. Got pulled up for that when I started.

I spend some time with my DDs now teaching them not to be polite and "ladylike" but make yourself heard and be assertive. My DPs taught me a lot of good things but my DM is far too into the "Don't do that, it's not ladylike" which strays into telling girls to be quiet and sitting passively and not being noticed. Fuck that.

I spend some time with my DDs now teaching them not to be polite and "ladylike" but make yourself heard and be assertive. My DPs taught me a lot of good things but my DM is far too into the "Don't do that, it's not ladylike" which strays into telling girls to be quiet and sitting passively and not being noticed. Fuck that

this is where I struggle as well. A lot of “manners” seems to be shut up, smile, and do what others want you to do. I remember being pulled up quite often for saying no, or trying to argue my point, because it wasn’t polite. As you say, fuck that.

I’m not sure you can be “well mannered” without being a doormat. Especially as a female child, where any ounce of an opinion, any refusal to do what someone else wants is “back chatting”, or rude.

I haven’t read all the thread but was taught to shake hands twice. Firm but not death grip. When saying your name say First name twice and then surname. You say twice as people may not hear first time. Prevents any social awkwardness.

Weirdly just started reinforcing this to my daughter. She is at prep school and also learning this at school and the importance of looking people in eye.

This has reminded me about how much I hate ‘bless you’ when I sneeze. I hate it!

Op it's a bit of common sense to straighten your clothes if it's creased or you feel uncomfortable , no one needed to teach that to you.
Well the other things though, sometimes we just follow what others do I guess?

Hmm, many many years ago, the Deputy Head Teacher of our local Senior school, arrived to collect her daughter, who was playing with my older sister, from our house, one evening.

She proffered her hand to shake mine, I was junior school age, maybe 8 or 9 , and she said “How do you do” I shook her hand and replied, “I’m very well thank you “ and the horrible woman laughed at me.

You should reply with “How do you do “ too, but I hadn’t realised or been taught the response.

Obviously I’ve never forgotten, or liked the woman from that moment, and think it was plain mean to embarrass someone that way, and I was embarrassed.

I was taught lots of social niceties but almost nothing practical!

I am 70 years old. I grew up in the American South and we were taught manners by everyone. In church we learned how to sit, smooth our (below-the-knee) skirts and never cross our legs at the knee. At home we learned table manners, including how to set the silverware out correctly on the table. We made place mats in kindergarten/reception class with outlines of the plates and cutlery so they were laid correctly.
In school we learned standing when adults entered a room, shaking hands, proper way to greet someone and to introduce someone (younger to older, less important to more important).
At age 14 both boys and girls took cotillion classes which included basic formal dancing and dining etiquette. The session ends with a formal dinner dance.
In secondary school a class called Home Economics included a quarter session in party giving. Sending RSVP invitations, making seating charts, setting up a buffet menu, forming a reception line, etc. All 11th grade girls took this class and the final "exam" was a graduation reception given by the 11th grades for the graduating seniors and their parents.
This was public/state schools. Not religious, private or fee-paying. Everyone got basic instruction in manners.

This is essentially what I was going to say — what constitutes ‘manners’ is social class-dependent, culture-dependent etc. I’m a working-class foreigner who grew up in a very deprived family with isolated parents, so I only really acquired various sets of situation-appropriate manners and behavioural norms in different countries in young adulthood, including, at Oxford, more arcane things like which way to pass the port, how/when to eat fruit with cutlery etc. 😀 In the UK, I remain fascinated by lingering class codes/U, non-U terms (what vs pardon etc), am a confident and natural code-switcher, but will confess to disliking elaborate lower-middle-class displays of ‘nice manners’.

Hi MumCanIDoThat, it really wasn't commonsense to me.
I was actually physically uncomfortable for most of my childhood and indeed life as my clothes didn't fit right, socks would fall down skirts and shirts would be stained and twisted and shoes had holes.
We were poor and I was aware of that from a young age, my mother had died so even when I started buying my own clothes as a teenager I had no idea of sizing what things like bras should feel like so wore the wrong size for years.
So it interested me to realise so late in life (60s) that maybe the smoothing clothes advice is commonplace and also there was a lot of other everyday knowledge I did not know.

Hi Psychopomps, yes that why I titled the thread 'niceties' as it is a fine distinction between them and manners. etiquette , social norms, conventions etc. It could even be considered a nice point as I was taught long ago one of the former meanings of nice being a fine or subtle difference. I checked my meaning: 'a detail or aspect of polite social behaviour'. I have been pondering the differences between etiquette and manners. I think etiquette is a code of behaviour which assigns and keeps people in their place in social situations such as you must have experienced in your Oxford college and as shown in QE11's funeral. A tribal code. Manners can also do that as shown by the stories of introductory put downs shared by me and others here but to me the interesting thing is that they also function as a protective barrier for the one using them. So the rude ones are showing weakness by revealing the chinks in their armour or not, maybe. Many people say, 'good manners cost nothing' but they do cost a lot in awareness, self -control, imagination, tolerance and just social effort or engagement. Have you heard of the saying "Kill them with kindness, cripple them with courtesy"? Think of how much effort that takes. Though it helps if you have been socialised early usually by your mother/female relatives as many have shown on this thread and what I am aware of lacking.

Hi GeorgiaGirl, we are nearly the same age so it's fascinating to hear how what I have read about in American novels was true in your own life. Like the Scene in To Kill A Mocking Bird where the boy guest wants to smother his dinner in maple syrup (?was it) only to be pulled up by the Black servant. I would have been in the position of that boy if ever I was invited to eat at anyone's house, a rare event in my childhood and overcome by plenitude. Were you aware of the training you were getting as a means of social and sexual control?

Parents and grandparents were strict with table manners, how to lay a table, ask to be excused, not starting before everyone has been served etc. Also with how to speak to adults, say thank you after an event, sending thank you letters for gifts, proper telephone manner and that.

School made us stand up to meet a new adult and hold doors open and I do both those without even thinking. Whilst it was phased out before I was old enough, the older girls had deportment lessons (would have been early 90s).
Things like how to get in and out of a car in a skirt! Those teachers (and my grandmother) were firm on things like excellent posture, also no public grooming, and never ever eating whilst walking. I can't do either.

I wasn't particularly taught about dress codes and figured that out by myself. I'm nearly 40 and it stands out when someone doesn't have the basics. I've an especially boorish colleague at the moment though so quite tuned in to it!

Thanks for that, Life or may I call you LifeLife? It does explain clearly what the greetings expectations are in certain classes. Probably explains why I am here at 64 asking basic questions rather than ruling the country. I never can remember anyone's name or recognise their face. But seriously isn't it socially awkward if people think you are BobBob or JohnJohn or whatever? I don't know your daughter's age but don't you think it is also important for your daughter to know a person may shake hands firmly , look you straight in the eye, smile, remember your name and use it appropriately and yet still be the devil incarnate?

I was taught manners and etiquette by my parents and have passed it onto my sons. I also learnt a lot about etiquette from watching historical dramas and reading about various times in history. I find it fascinating to learn where these kind of thing originate and why they came to be. I also think that some manners and etiquette seem to be dying out in our now 'entitled' world, which is a shame.
I was always taught to be respectful of my elders, vacate a chair if an adult needed a seat, offer my seat on a bus or train if there were someone more in need than I, hold the door open, be thankful if someone did something nice for me. A lot of these small gestures seem to be forgotten these days. BTW for reference I am 50 yrs old 🤗

I wasn't explicitly taught anything like that. Common sense or picking up on it from family/social circle.

Lots of etiquette and manners, though. Things like not eating à pied, outdoors obviously. I was thinking of that one as I was walking along drinking a cup of takeaway coffee and eating a cookie last night!

I went to catholic school in the US. It was very strict on how to address the teachers. Sister Veronica, Brother Michael, Mrs Jones etc. My family then moved to Ireland.

First day of secondary school. I addressed one teacher as Mrs X, another as Mr Y. I guess they discussed it in the staff room at lunch time, because I was pulled into the headmasters office and told all male teachers were to be addressed as Sir, the females as Miss. I was told it was rude to call them by name. I asked why (I had not yet learned that asking why did not go down well). I was told that addressing a teacher by name was acting like I was their equal, and I was emphatically not their equal. I went along with it as when in Rome..
I would have understood if I had called them John or Mary.

I have been reflecting on the handshaking question and remembered we were taught in history lessons in school that the custom came from the days when knights could go around armed. If they met someone who was not an enemy they would offer to clasp right hands to show they were unarmed and meant no harm. So it developed into a more widespread show of friendliness and trust between men and a symbol of trust in business. I think it was quite late in the 19th century the habit became common between women. We were also told the custom of men walking on the outside of women on a pavement or road came from when horses and carriages were used on unpaved roads so they were muddy or dusty. the idea was that a woman of higher social standing should be protected from contamination or even footpads (muggers) at night if they had to walk anywhere.

My father did shake hands with my older brothers on notable occasion - birthdays, leaving/coming home, New Year. He kissed the girls on the forehead so it seems I had quite a formal upbringing. He also only ever used surnames with neighbours, Mr/Mrs/Miss though he lived there for over 20 years

Yes, of course. Table manners, all of it. How to be polite and considerate in company....

It's much more than a set of behaviors, it's a perspective, a way of life.

Working class background, artistic family.

I'd say I was taught a medium amount of this kinda stuff, I think a lot depends on your social status. For example, Princess Charlotte will be in a lot of high society events where impeccable manors and specific protocols are expect, but for my DC, half of it won't apply or be necessary in life. As long as they're polite to people I'm happy

@Liorae
In my secondary school in Ireland we always said Ms Surname, Mr Surname. Primary school too, with the addition of Sister 'Name'..

Kids in Secondary who had come from certain feeder schools always just said Miss for women but Mr Surname for male teachers. Weirdly sexist, I thought.

That is a really sweet story and makes you realise the impact you can have on little ones who for whatever reasons have things 'lacking' in their lives even if they only see you occasionally. No offence meant. 💐

Uuuuuuuuuyyyyyyyyyyyyhygt

Sincere apologies. Guess who was scrolling Mumsnet in bed and managed to somehow send gobbledegook whilst falling asleep and face planting the phone 🤦🏻‍♀️