Crown Jewels looted from Africa

[Birdy1066]

The massive diamond in the sceptre of the monarch is the Great Star of Africa, 530.2 carats . It was discovered in 1905 and ‘gifted’ to the British royal family by the then colonial powers.
Activists in South Africa are now demanding that it is returned. I absolutely agree with them. Amid all the pomp and ceremony of the recent funeral everyone turns a blind eye to the fact that many of the gems in the Crown Jewels were looted from Africa in one form or another under colonialism.
Africa is NOT poor. But it’s peoples are poor because it’s mineral wealth and massive riches have been torn out of it and shipped elsewhere by western countries.
The majority of the British press couldn’t give a toss about the colonialist legacy of Great Britain but it is crucially important that the issue is examined and reparations made.
Those glittering diamonds, emeralds and rubies so much admired and set in the crowns and gaudy trinkets of the rich were taken out the dirt of Africa and dipped in the blood of its people.
At the very least it’s time they were returned.
Do you agree ?

But yet you still live here (I assume)

Xenophobia does not help the country. At all.

The country needs good relations with other countries.

Highlighting where Britain might be going wrong is feedback that could be useful in diplomacy.

It’s a lack of self-awareness that leads people to say hubristic stuff like “we look after your heritage better than you”.

Why should people who live here not point it out? Helps with the self-awareness in diplomacy.

That's working out well.

Why is not working out well?

They’ve helped build the NHS, which was a new introduction after the war.

And made good use of it as well

That usually happens when they helped build something… swings and roundabouts.

Britain made use out of resources from the ancestors and homelands. So why shouldn’t they make good use of it?

^from their ancestors and homelands

Yes agreed but it's this holy than thou attitude which is frustrating

Did people already here not help build the NHS as well

Were there not poor and struggling people in the UK during the time of the empire who were treated appallingly by their "betters".

What's your cut off then?

Sure.

And immigrants had to deal with the wrath and racism of people already here questioning who let them in.

Immigrants had different challenges due to visible differences. Then they got accused of “taking jobs”. They put up with a lot of crap that simply wouldn’t have been there had there homelands not been stripped of its wealth.

Most people already here don’t realise where much of British wealth and resources came from and how or how the people it was taken from felt. I read somewhere that the civil service pensions were funded by Indians…

It’s not necessarily a holier than thou attitude (but I can see how that can be perceived) but a lack of understanding that Britain didn’t get rich through honest means. People forget where the money and resources have come from - and that’s what feels wrong when immigrants are accused of being on the take without any give.

Excellent post @CurseOfBigness

There is a definite case for some items to be returned the reason this isnt happening is that once a few items go back the floodgates will open and there would be a free for all. Who would decide what was rightfully gifted or traded? Who decides if in this case the giftee had the right to gift? Then youve got convoluted cases of where should items go for instance the horses of St Marks have been looted several times, in the instance of say a piece of jewellery would it belong to the country the jewellery was made in or the country the raw materials came from? As I say there are a few items that should be returned, the mass emptying of museums would only end up in the whole world being culturally poorer and many significant items being lost or disappearing into private hands.

What did Britain get rich from? Have you heard of the Industrial Revolution?

Have you heard of the British Empire?

Colonialism was happening a few hundred years before the industrial revolution. Would the industrial revolution have even been possible without the vast profits and resources coming in from the colonies?

Why do people not recognise how the colonies enabled the Industrial revolution to happen?

Modern Britain is Shaped by its Imperial Past. Discuss.

I can't wait for the 30+ thousands of boat people who have arrived this year alone to start contributing - our lives will be all the richer won't they.

Yes they will when they are allowed to contribute.

Ive spoken to qualified doctors, engineers, social workers not allowed to work till they’ve been granted refugee status. They do want to contribute rather than be in limbo.

Again, it would be so much more effective if you knew anything about the rise and fall of the Sikh Empire before trotting out Daily Mail worthy “THUGS STEAL PRICELESS DIAMOND…FROM A KID!!”
The tragedy of the Sikh Empire is that Ranjit Singh, who was clearly a military and diplomatic genius, made zero contingency for the governance of the empire he had built after he was gone.
The mechanism by which the Koh I Nur came into British hands was de jure by Duleep Singh’s signing the Treaty of Lahore, but de facto by the machinations of Gulab Singh, who’s (perhaps) duplicity was rewarded by the British giving him the kingdom of Jammu & Kashmir. Remembering of course that expansionist Ranjit Singh had crushed the Dogri Rajputs (of whom Gulan Singh was one) and annexed (with looting, I expect) their kingdoms.
So anyway, looks like some chickens came home to roost there too.

So this is from the 70s and a rather bonkers take on this. During the 70s children collected milk bottle tops to make money for the Bi Afran war ( eg Blue Peter ) My Uncle worked in Nigeria and the vans etc they bought from the money raised just rusted on the side of the port because the government didn't care & did not pick them up. I am NOT saying this would happen now - but some of these things are hard questions.

Whether the Ko I Noor diamond should be retuned , I don't know - That is a harder question.

Thanks for that. 300000 valuable souls to integrate and enhance the country. I'm uplifted already. Now all we need now is somewhere for them to live. Easy peasy.

I have no issues with refugees and very few with economic migrants.
I cannot see that returning to rather random places jewels bought or gifted in the past is going to help them.
An immigration system with enough staff to run, sufficient social housing for all those who need it, more job security, a reasonable living wage all seem like things that might actually help.
Both immigrants and people currently living in Britain.

zero contingency for the governance of the empire he had built after he was gone

Ranjit Singh apparently bequeathed the Koh-i-Noor to the Jagannath Temple. That was a curious move. Interestingly that will was not honoured. So how do we know there was also not a contingency plan that was also not honoured?

Curious that there’s conveniently no evidence of any contingency. But that doesn’t mean he made zero contingency plans. The kingdom bed built was also ‘new’ and fragile - and he knew it.

What about having oaths of allegiances sworn to his son and heir Karak Singh?

Zero contingency sounds unlikely. Sounds to me like he did have contingency for the governance when he was gone, because he wasn’t stupid. He knew the British would come for his empire because it was the only one left to conquer in India.

I agree that the empire fell soon after he was gone, but a major factor is that the British had their eyes on his empire when he was alive. His death presented an opportunity. They took it and manipulated the likes of Gulab Singh and others. The Lahore court became very corrupt after his death.

No, I didn’t source my knowledge from the daily mail. I read various sources.

Are you also saying that the treaty signed by the ten year old child, Duleep Singh, was justified? Wow.

Chickens came home to roost and now they’re gone. So who’s next?

No, I didn’t source my knowledge from the daily mail. I read various sources. And mindful that history is written by victors. So reading between the lines becomes increasingly important to get to the truth.

zero contingency for the governance of the empire he had built after he was gone

Ranjit Singh apparently bequeathed the Koh-i-Noor to the Jagannath Temple. That was a curious move. Interestingly that will was not honoured. So how do we know there was also not a contingency plan that was also not honoured?

Curious that there’s conveniently no evidence of any contingency. But that doesn’t mean he made zero contingency plans. The kingdom bed built was also ‘new’ and fragile - and he knew it.

What about having oaths of allegiances sworn to his son and heir Karak Singh?

Zero contingency sounds unlikely. Sounds to me like he did have contingency for the governance when he was gone, because he wasn’t stupid. He knew the British would come for his empire because it was the only one left to conquer in India.

I agree that the empire fell soon after he was gone, but a major factor is that the British had their eyes on his empire when he was alive. His death presented an opportunity. They took it and manipulated the likes of Gulab Singh and others. The Lahore court became very corrupt after his death.

Duleep Singh was the last male heir standing after a series of heirs met an untimely death. But Duleep Singh was a child with only his mother to protect his interests. So of course they got rid of the mother. Easier to manipulate a child, isn’t it?

Are you also saying that the treaty signed by the ten year old child, Duleep Singh, was justified? Wow. You sound like a fair minded person…

Chickens came home to roost and now they’re gone. So who’s next?

And immigrants had to deal with the wrath and racism of people already here questioning who let them in.

Immigrants had different challenges due to visible differences. Then they got accused of “taking jobs”. They put up with a lot of crap that simply wouldn’t have been there had there homelands not been stripped of its wealth.

Anecdote Alert! Some of the posts on this thread have reminded me of my friend whose parents were part of the Windrush Generation. I won't say where they came from as it might make them recognisable. Anyway, during a convo about this and other general stuff over wine, we vaguely talked about her and her family history. She said "it wasn't always easy no, but it was worth it, between us all - parents & four siblings - we did pretty ok out of coming over." Without going into too many details, they'd all bought their various council properties, under Right To Buy, small mortgages, paid off quickly, in London! That family is worth millions now albeit mostly tied up in property.

I only offer this as another point to the discussion. I thought it was brilliant.

While the British did invade countries prior to the Industrial Revolution, the major expansion was funded by the money from new industries and also a significant motivation for colonization was to supply new customers for the goods being produced by the (exploited, desperately poor) workers in the factories. And yes, also so the British could exploit the resources of the colonized countries.

Ha ha ha... they would rather would have not. This society still treats them as a second class citizen, again a result of colonialism.