Crown Jewels looted from Africa

[Birdy1066]

The massive diamond in the sceptre of the monarch is the Great Star of Africa, 530.2 carats . It was discovered in 1905 and ‘gifted’ to the British royal family by the then colonial powers.
Activists in South Africa are now demanding that it is returned. I absolutely agree with them. Amid all the pomp and ceremony of the recent funeral everyone turns a blind eye to the fact that many of the gems in the Crown Jewels were looted from Africa in one form or another under colonialism.
Africa is NOT poor. But it’s peoples are poor because it’s mineral wealth and massive riches have been torn out of it and shipped elsewhere by western countries.
The majority of the British press couldn’t give a toss about the colonialist legacy of Great Britain but it is crucially important that the issue is examined and reparations made.
Those glittering diamonds, emeralds and rubies so much admired and set in the crowns and gaudy trinkets of the rich were taken out the dirt of Africa and dipped in the blood of its people.
At the very least it’s time they were returned.
Do you agree ?

Tbh if the Crown Jewels were nicked and replaced with glass ones I’d be none the wiser. I never really get why jewels are worth a lot of money. I say give the jewels back, they serve no great purpose.

India will always not be run by a right wing prime minister. But the resentment, sense of unfairness and injustice will always be present among the common Indian people.
Britain needs as many allies as possible but chooses to cling on to its past glory. Reception to BJ when he visited India was lukewarm to say the least and most people would not give a hoot if LT visits India. Imagine the goodwill ,popularity, soft power Britain can have on a country like India if it chooses to give some of the artefacts taken from India. The way western countries behave, make statements about other developing countries and interfere in their internal affairs are all effect of colonialism!

Actually I suspect India will be run by right-wingers, that is to say, Hindu nationalists for some time. Indian Muslims got thrown under the bus some time back and I don't think there is an much of a basis to say that they oppressed India, unless you're going back to the Mughals.

So I don't think handing a few things over to the government of India will make much difference, even if it is morally right. What matters is power and influence.

I think I'm just more pessimistic than you, and in the world, political as it is, narrative has always been more powerful than truth. This 'colonial reckoning' is just a reflection of Britain's diminished power. People aren't so inclined to suck up to the UK. The Americans will get their turn too, in time.

@PixellatedPixie
Sort of like terra nullius. You know when the British decided that no one actually owned the land in Australia, there for they could clam it for the empire. Totally ignoring the people who had been there for 60,000 years.

It was a response to someone who said all this stuff happened so long ago there was no one left alive therefore didnt matter. I was just pointing out that there were lots of people left alive.

Look at what has been happening in Zimbabwe since Independence in 1980....Nothing .The people are destitute , nothing functions women are dying in childbirth and many from cancer because there is no functioning health care system.The roads are in a state of disrepair that makes travelling from town to town even for work (when you are lucky enough to have it) life threatening.Inflation is the highest in the world .Yet their so called leaders are swanning around in fancy cars and living in luxury .The leaders only look after their own families and not the people they were 'chosen to serve' .The current administration took over what was known as the Breadbasket of Africa a dynamic and beautiful country . Now it is in ruins .Getting back any of the Colonial wealth would only result in bigger bank accounts in Singapore and elsewhere .The normal man on the street would go empty handed yet again!

whilst in the U.K. the new PM and chancellor are going to bring back bankers bonuses. Risky behaviours and rich getting richer. Whereas those on benefits will have static benefits and told must try harder. Workers rights will be shredded too once EU legislation is removed. NHS and education severely under funded but there’s a private system of can afford to pay. Well off will be ok and get more wealth, poorer won’t. Gap will widen.

Erm. The Indian issue dates back to the last couple of centuries. Pretty sure the “Trumpesque loudmouth” (to use your words) hasn’t been around for over a hundred years.

History is massively relevant. Read a credible text about it and you’ll understand why the history matters.

I can't agree with it only in the basis you're swapping one corrupt party for a more corrupt party in this matter. SA is an absolute mess at the moment which is such a shame as it's so beautiful.

Well, in this case the land from which the Cullen diamond was mined was taken from the Afrikaners, but I won’t be holding my breath for the “Return the Cullen diamonds to the Afrikaners!” flex to start trending on Twitter.

@DevilsVineBlues thank you, the most sense spoken on this thread.

I was going to mention the control and associated "value" which would become lower if the controls were lifted.

So it isn't stolen if it's a birthday gift?

The Koh-i-noor was also "gifted" - by a 10 year old boy forced to sign it over to the British who had imprisoned his mother.

The British have a unique perspective when it comes to "gifts".

It is awful. But they seem to get away with awful things. They set the example that being awful brings good results in terms of wealth, status and power. Inspiring…

Is that why they adorn the crown (a symbol of sanctity and justice) with looted and/or stolen jewels?

A way of making the statement that they got away with being awful.

I just think it’s unwise to mess with the crown. After all, it’s supposed to be a symbol of the sanctity of justice. So, it’s like playing with fire laws.

Maybe we could consider all the charity donations to Africa as reparations, or return the diamonds and stop the charity.

Ffs, stop trying to guilt trip the British population.

They don’t make demands because they know it’s batshit?

in that case should the efforts to recover nazi plunder and return to rightful owners be stopped too?

but I won’t be holding my breath for the “Return the Cullen diamonds to the Afrikaners!” flex to start trending on Twitter

Very true.

More likely, they don’t care enough.

What’s truly batshit it forcing a ten year old to sign over a diamond to the British who had imprisoned his mother. And then adorn the diamond to the Crown (that’s supposed to symbolise the sanctity of justice).

Are you telling me that’s not batshit?

It’s not a surprise that the Koh-I-Noor causes the controversy it does. It’s batshit that the British honestly thought it was acceptable and there would be no repercussions.

Rummikub, the Nazis stole art and then the Russians stole the stolen art and more.
Do you think Russia should have to give back the art it stole from Germany during the war?

We have to get over the past. I’m Irish, was brought up fairly anti British, but then I grew up. We need to improve people’s lives now, not try to punish people for the past out of sheer hatred.

Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. That’s why learning from the past matters.

The symbolism of taking a diamond from a ten year old and then adorning it to the crown is one of humiliation and injustice. That symbolism is not lost on India (who are now a superpower in their own right and who Britain needs). Until now, that diamond still adorns a crown, so it’s relevant now too.

Learn from the history. Don’t be surprised that countries like India hold any bad feeling and distrust; they’ve not forgotten and that means they are less likely to make the same mistakes again.

I feel there is a big difference between learning from the past and living in it while banging on about reparations.

Those of you who would 'give back' the Koh-I-Nor diamond for example, who would you give it to?

Strictly speaking the region it was stolen from is now Pakistan, so should it be returned to Pakistan rather than India? Then others believe Afghanistan or Iran have claims to the stone due to a different periods of its ownership.

Even entertaining the idea of 'returning it' would cause problems in our relationships with other countries that consider themselves to have a claim.

I guess you would have to find the living relatives of that 10 year old boy and return it to them. How would you determine which relative has the greatest entitlement?

To give it to anyone who isn't the family wouldn't be returning it as it is still being withheld from the rightful owner.

How many of us who own diamonds knows the Provence of said diamonds?

Do you know that children/poor people/slaves didn't die sourcing that rock?

The issue is not the Jewel or how it was obtained. The issue is that people still covet this crap regardless of how it's obtained.

Why in this enlightened age are we squabbling about rocks, because they look pretty?