Crown Jewels looted from Africa

[Birdy1066]

The massive diamond in the sceptre of the monarch is the Great Star of Africa, 530.2 carats . It was discovered in 1905 and ‘gifted’ to the British royal family by the then colonial powers.
Activists in South Africa are now demanding that it is returned. I absolutely agree with them. Amid all the pomp and ceremony of the recent funeral everyone turns a blind eye to the fact that many of the gems in the Crown Jewels were looted from Africa in one form or another under colonialism.
Africa is NOT poor. But it’s peoples are poor because it’s mineral wealth and massive riches have been torn out of it and shipped elsewhere by western countries.
The majority of the British press couldn’t give a toss about the colonialist legacy of Great Britain but it is crucially important that the issue is examined and reparations made.
Those glittering diamonds, emeralds and rubies so much admired and set in the crowns and gaudy trinkets of the rich were taken out the dirt of Africa and dipped in the blood of its people.
At the very least it’s time they were returned.
Do you agree ?

Well said

Christ, don't give them to the current SA government, they'll be flogged off in Dubai.

Forget about returning Kho I noor, diamonds and precious stones, why does this country not teach colonial history so people can understand how this country got wealthy?
How many here know about the atrocities committed by the Empire in various countries ?
Every single person in this country benefitted from colonialism, including the mill workers as India had to export their raw material and buy clothes made in Manchester, Lancashire - for example.
Has any one of your children's history book mention the Empire and how it has affected the world?

Telling Kohinoor belongs to Iran/ Pakistan / India. - don't know who it belongs to does not make it yours! There are some extremely important cultural and religious relics and artefacts in Britain which does not have any relevance to this society. They must be returned as they are looted , pillaged and plundered. Even if you say that it is bought, look at who they got it from- thieves who were stealing and selling it in a roundabout way to western museums!

No wonder there are so many xenophobic replies. As a Pp poster suggested that it is getting tiresome to be asked to return the jewels , artefacts in the museum , may be if people are educated properly about this country's history then probably they will understand why some of us feel the way we feel.

Very interesting
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullinan_Diamond

Shiny shiny

The kohinoor’s an interesting one. Desired, stolen and cursed.

The story of how Britain took it from a child is more worrying tbh. Makes one question the moral compass of the late Queen’s Mother and all the other Queens who wore the diamond on their crowns.

If I honestly thought that “ giving back” diamond to SA would improve the lives of the poor people in the town ships & squatter camps, I would totally agree with you. However it won’t, the money raised from selling it on, as it would be, would be stolen by the corrupt political system.

This isn’t really a good analogy. If you look at the area where the South African diamonds were found nobody owned the land at the time per se. No one lived permanently in a settlement there. It’s far more complex than it appears. Should the current Americans return the land to the Native Americans?

Colonialism and apartheid were utterly evil but also very complex. I lived in South Africa for nearly 30 years and can tell you that the current problems faced by black South Africans are far, far bigger than who owns a piece of rock in a crown in England.

The ANC has been in power for almost thirty years (since 1994) and they have been plagued by corruption and horrendous leadership for much of that time.

But why showcase it on the crown?

The crown is supposed to symbolise sanctity and justice. Adorning it with looted and/or stolen jewels makes a mockery out of the sanctity of justice.

I agree with you there.

Yes - crap analogy. Taking what is happening in Ukraine and what is going to happen with Taiwan and trying to coalesce that story using the UK as it is today into those Autocratic regimes while making specific exemption of our head of state and prime minister is very poor. In fact I cannot that that previous poster seriously anymore.

Specific mention.

Totally agree with you. I think many people had high hopes for Cyril however...

@Birdy1066 “As for calling people out for virtue signalling, namely accusing those of us who’ve stuck our heads up over the parapet”

Posting anonymously on mumsnet is sticking your head above the parapet? Those are some pretty low parapets you’ve got there!
The thing about that particular diamond is that it was absolutely not looted, and if you had bothered to educate yourself there are easy better things to get heated about, but the fact is that, unless you belong to the elite, of any country really, you’re going to have historical grievences. The thing is the elite don’t give a shit. They’ll throw you some peanuts, take down a statue, return some bronzes, because they don’t care about those things. For the rest of us, even if we didn’t have our own grievances, times are hard and people are fed up of “look at me “ identity politics. It’s not a priority. It’s a luxury mostly derived from the lazy ideology of spoiled American undergraduates, in truth

So, has coal been looted from Wales, England and Scotland? Is oil looted from the North sea or the UAE? Did we loot that gas from underneath Russia?
What about all that magnesium and cobalt being looted in Africa right now so you can have a mobile phone and batteries; shall we give it all back?

Or just recognise that countries have always traded resources with other countries in exchange for money, skills, economic development.

@Ponderingwindow yes i agree
How long can we be held accountable foe everything no country has a pure history and probably many have things that were gifted or otherwise gained years ago

Whats the cut off point for reparations? 100,200 a thousand years, so many countries looted/colonised and plundered others. Britain was not the only one,

England should immediately seek reparations from Italy. Our people were enslaved and the wealth of the country exported back to Rome. I demand that Italy pay for their imperialism!!

Why is it that no one ever demands reparations from Italy as the Roman Empire colonized most of Europe? Or the Ottoman enough? Or the Mongol empire?

England can make demands. They choose not to. Clearly not that bothered or aggrieved. There’s nothing stoping the government from making those demands to engage in discussion with Italy of any other nation.

The difference is that the countries making these requests have sincere grievances (often involving racism that continues to this day). Sincerity is clear by how they’re bothered enough to make their case loud and clear.

Ignoring justified grievances doesn’t make them less important or just disappear. They’re keenly held deeply and make well bite back on the bum.

Bottom line: it’s valuable to treat peoples and nations with fairness and justice. You never know when you need their help. A prime example is India, who are now a superpower in their own right and not influenced easily because of old wounds.

Sorry about typos.

No, I don't agree.

I don't see how returning a gem (that, incidentally, was purchased, not stolen) to any country in the world, is logical. You could apply that same reasoning to anything mined under globalisation. Oil from Nigeria for example.

In its current form, it is a thing of genuine beauty that can be see by anyone, rather than being hidden away in someone's bank vault.

Which gem are you talking about specifically?

There are a few that cause controversy.

In just the same way it's very, very convenient for a lot of corrupt rulers to demand reparations for Empire. It a nationalist dog-whistle to take the heat off their own management. The countries claiming them are, despite being independent for half a century, remain poor through simple bad government.

South Africa, for example, needs to sort out its own shit. I reckon most supporters of reparations haven't the first idea just how corrupt it is. For example, Zuma's cronies looted the South African treasury so badly that the government had to cut all manner of essential services. One of these was mental health provision. It got put out to tender and, guess what, bribes again. Disabled people were actually left in garages and starved to death.

Also there's a reason why that diamond only got dug up during colonial times. The locals weren't about to get it out.

Bottom line: it’s valuable to treat peoples and nations with fairness and justice. You never know when you need their help. A prime example is India, who are now a superpower in their own right and not influenced easily because of old wounds.

Another explanation is that India is run by a Trumpesque loudmouth who would throw anyone under a bus if it suited him regardless of circumstance, and therefore history is irrelevant.

Some of this has started. Benin statues are being returned for example. As they should be.

So what?