Crown Jewels looted from Africa

[Birdy1066]

The massive diamond in the sceptre of the monarch is the Great Star of Africa, 530.2 carats . It was discovered in 1905 and ‘gifted’ to the British royal family by the then colonial powers.
Activists in South Africa are now demanding that it is returned. I absolutely agree with them. Amid all the pomp and ceremony of the recent funeral everyone turns a blind eye to the fact that many of the gems in the Crown Jewels were looted from Africa in one form or another under colonialism.
Africa is NOT poor. But it’s peoples are poor because it’s mineral wealth and massive riches have been torn out of it and shipped elsewhere by western countries.
The majority of the British press couldn’t give a toss about the colonialist legacy of Great Britain but it is crucially important that the issue is examined and reparations made.
Those glittering diamonds, emeralds and rubies so much admired and set in the crowns and gaudy trinkets of the rich were taken out the dirt of Africa and dipped in the blood of its people.
At the very least it’s time they were returned.
Do you agree ?

[MKCH]

@oneuptwodown
I totally see how that came across. Truth be told, I couldn't care less where the diamond is. Honestly - don't give a toss.

But to think that giving it back to SA would mean the wealth was somehow going to be distributed amongst the citizens - that's utter tripe.

The SA government is corrupt to the core, Ramaphosa is as bad as Zuma. Thinking that 'oh but we should give the wealth back to where it belongs' will help is just incredibly, incredibly optimistic - to say the least.

So when I say it's best staying where it is, I don't mean that from a 'because we're so much better' perspective, but that giving it back to SA in its current state would achieve absolutely nothing.

[Freedomfighters]

No, I don't think it should be returned.

[Qisk]

I guarantee you this.

No person of any colour or not, of any political leaning or of any social class will ever come up with a viable solution to 4,000 years of history.

Nobody. Not one.

In the meantime we all crumble on like dinosaurs of every species to extinction paying lip service to climate change.

[MerryMaidens]

The point is not the wealth- no one would suggest you 'cash in' the diamond. It's worth about 2 billion. SA alone's annual GDP is about 300 billion. It's not going to be transformational to the economy. The point is the return of resources and artifacts that were looted violently by colonialist regimes.

The Benin Bronzes are priceless. They are being returned (although the British Museum has yet to go all the way the Horniman Museum has).

www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/travel/2022/09/benin-bronzes-return-to-nigeria

[Qisk]

@InWalksBarberalla

Curious - is the UK government sharing the wealth of the jewels with the UK people?

Eerr.... Yes.

The last two weeks. Then all the tourism driven by simply everything to do with history and especially since 1840. All this comes back in spades.

People do not come here for the weather.

[Qisk]

@LadyKenya

Sounds no different to the Government we have here in the Uk.

This government is less than a month old. It really is. Come back when you have something tangible to say.

[woodhill]

@GucciBear

When all the loot taken by the Romans, Vikings and French is returned to us I would agree. Throughout history countries have invaded and taken valuables from their victims. Why doesn't everyone accept this and make sure it does not happen again? We cannot right past wrongs but we can make sure that we don't follow the example.

Excellent point

[Qisk]

@TheLeadbetterLife

The usual xenophobic responses to these kinds of legitimate enquiries.

"Can't possibly give the Elgin Marbles back to the feckless Greeks, they won't look after them properly".

"Can't give jewels back to the countries we stole them from, they're all corrupt, don't you know? We'll look after it for them, until such time as they can prove to be as upstanding and moral as we obviously are."

The colonial attitude never really goes away, even when the former occupiers are now a tinpot state which launders money on an industrial scale, and has a shitshow of a government that can't keep things going for more than 18 months without an election.

OP's first post is weak though. Poorly written and not really aimed at a reasonable discussion. Hardly legitimate then.....no citation etc.

Give the jewels back. And the marbles. They are just trinkets. They really do not matter now to me anyway.

But what else do you want from me? I am British but you do not know my very wide and ancient family dynamics. Do you want my land? My house? My garden? Do you want me to tithe 10% of my earnings to some despot in Africa or Asia. Some geezer in the Far East whose subjects have to crawl to him on the floor for a week before they get recognised as family?

I am not going to do that. Nor are 68 million other people, which incidentally is everybody. Including you @Birdy1066 . Including you. When you get to 60 you will realise this.

[inheritanceshiteagain]

Curious, is the UK government sharing the wealth of the jewels with the UK people?

Well they don't need to as we are the 6th wealthiest nation

[Qisk]

@Birdy1066

Lockheart yes I would give my phone up, and I’ve never owned a diamond or precious stone in my entire life !
Some heartwarming responses on here ! Not !

Bollocks. You will never give up your phone.

You were either (a) born in an era when you had a phone for your 8th birthday or (b) old enough and ugly enough to know that if you really meant what you said you would have done it by now.

Yet here you are. On your phone. Out of Africa with minerals.

And, I might add the average thread is about 7kg of CO2 emissions. Your thread.

[schnubbins]

That diamond would disappear into some chiefs /politicians or so called leaders pocket .It would be looted back .Nobody but nobody in S.A or any country would benefit from it .They are being looted by their own leaders for the last 40 years since the colonials left.Now the Chinese are in there plundering the resources and starting a new sort of colonialism.Nobody is saying anything.Meanwhile the normal people desperate for good leadership and a chance at a good life are as always left behind in Africa .The leaders always blame their own incompetence and greed on the Colonials.It's about time that stopped.

[woodhill]

@schnubbins

That diamond would disappear into some chiefs /politicians or so called leaders pocket .It would be looted back .Nobody but nobody in S.A or any country would benefit from it .They are being looted by their own leaders for the last 40 years since the colonials left.Now the Chinese are in there plundering the resources and starting a new sort of colonialism.Nobody is saying anything.Meanwhile the normal people desperate for good leadership and a chance at a good life are as always left behind in Africa .The leaders always blame their own incompetence and greed on the Colonials.It's about time that stopped.

Yes funny about that

[woodhill]

@inheritanceshiteagain

Curious, is the UK government sharing the wealth of the jewels with the UK people?

Well they don't need to as we are the 6th wealthiest nation

I think those in poverty and relying on food banks may disagree

[Birdy1066]

I’m amazed that some people on here appear to be incapable of civilised discussion without resorting to behaviour and name calling more fitted to the school playground.
Everyone is entitled to a point of view. If you have one, express it by all means, but you don’t do yourself any favours by behaving like a sneering school bully.
As for calling people out for virtue signalling, namely accusing those of us who’ve stuck our heads up over the parapet, it isn’t virtue signalling to agree with people who are trying to correct a historic injustice.
These things do matter, otherwise the investigation of historic war crimes, the return of looted art treasures by Nazis to their rightful Jewish owners for example should be just ignored. Are the people who support any cause that matters to them just virtue signalling ? I think not.

[Pinktoothbrushesarefab]

OK, if we want to go down this road, let England have it's looted treasures back from the Nordic countries.
In the last decade of the eighth century, Viking raiders sacked a series of Christian monasteries located in what is now the United Kingdom, beginning in 793 with a raid on the coastal monastery of Lindisfarne on the north-east coast of England. The following year they sacked the nearby Monkwearmouth–Jarrow Abbey, and, in 795, they attacked again, raiding Iona Abbey on Scotland's west coast.

[Qisk]

@Birdy1066

I’m amazed that some people on here appear to be incapable of civilised discussion without resorting to behaviour and name calling more fitted to the school playground.
Everyone is entitled to a point of view. If you have one, express it by all means, but you don’t do yourself any favours by behaving like a sneering school bully.
As for calling people out for virtue signalling, namely accusing those of us who’ve stuck our heads up over the parapet, it isn’t virtue signalling to agree with people who are trying to correct a historic injustice.
These things do matter, otherwise the investigation of historic war crimes, the return of looted art treasures by Nazis to their rightful Jewish owners for example should be just ignored. Are the people who support any cause that matters to them just virtue signalling ? I think not.

You have given us the problem.

Now give us the solution. But please do not waffle. Even be SMART.

Specific
Measurable
Achievable
Relevant
Timescale

[Isaidnoalready]

@Birdy1066

Lockheart yes I would give my phone up, and I’ve never owned a diamond or precious stone in my entire life !
Some heartwarming responses on here ! Not !

The inconvenient truth is what it is you cannot bring in your faux outrage and get the facts wrong

[Soontobe60]

@MerryMaidens

Africa is not a country. The sweeping generalizations about corruption, governance and wealth here are incredible.

There are 54 formally recognised countries and 2 countries not recognised by the UN in the continent of Africa. 15 or so of these mine diamonds.

OP I absolutely agree. If you can't see how colonialism still impacts the world then you're either ridiculous or willfully ignoring it.

There are many other eras in history that continue to impact on societies now. Unfortunately the only era that seems to be en vogue currently is the colonial era and the belief that Colonialism is all about White people exploiting Black people. History is far more complex than that.
We cannot forget the past, nor should we, but we should focus our attention on the now and the future.

[AntlerRose]

Whilst I agree there us a lot of history. The end of colonislism isnt that long ago. Its topical as decolonisation happened during the lifetime of the queen, whose funeral had these items with central roles. It isnt quite the same as harking back to viking invaders.

[LondonWolf]

Some really excellent and informative responses on this thread. I am so grateful for them. Over the past five years or so I have often feared we were entirely lost to identity politics and the resultant judging historical events by current, faddish values, along with the required shaming, obsequiousness and desperation to self flagellate for historical wrongs which have absolutely nothing to do with anyone living today.

Pulling down statues, returning stones etc won't satisfy the woke, virtue signallers anyway.

And this just about sums it up.

[Pinktoothbrushesarefab]

@GucciBear When all the loot taken by the Romans, Vikings and French is returned to us I would agree. Throughout history countries have invaded and taken valuables from their victims. Why doesn't everyone accept this and make sure it does not happen again? We cannot right past wrongs but we can make sure that we don't follow the example.

Exactly my point 👏

[AntlerRose]

People are alive today who lived in british colonies. My parents and parents in law were born before lots of african countries gained independence.

[oneuptwodown]

Unfortunately the only era that seems to be en vogue currently is the colonial era

If’s not “en vogue”. It’s chickens coming home to roost. The children and grandchildren of those who lost their lives and or livelihoods to colonizers are now educated and numerous enough to stand up to the outrage. Much has changed in the last 50 years, and it’ll continue to change. The pendulum is swinging and you can see signs of it all over the world.

we should focus our attention on the now and the future

Should we? That would be very convenient for you, wouldn’t it. Now that the western world has enriched itself and continues to do so from colonial spoils, it’s dumping its figurative and literal waste back in the countries it decimated decades and centuries ago (not to mention the commercial “colonization” that continues rampantly and fervently). Sure, honey. Let’s forget about the past and just move on.

[roarfeckingroarr]

I disagree. Who would you give it to? Where does this end? No.