Worried again re the B's aka Putins sick threats

[Raul57]

I was awfully worried first time around re Putins nuke threats.

This time around I'm more worried as Putin is in a corner and our PM is known for blabbering stuff.

From wht I can see most of the Russian troops do not want to fight and not becuse they don't have guts but the real reason that they know this invasion is a sham

I've read on various sites some Russians are leaving Moscow etc as many more ex service men being called up.

Both sides have lost many people inc children.

I blame both sides but more so Putin as he is a nasty, weak, decrepit b.
You will always get people disagree with the other EG Scotland we speak the same lingo, eat the same food, look the same but imagine if Scotland had its own armed militias as you get extremists on both sides. Look at NI.

A fact not all are aware of the previous PM in the Ukraine was pro Russia and during the elections USA senetaros aka MP's were over in the Ukraine when the current PM won. Imagine Scotland having another referendum and we had MP's from China and Russia wooing the Scots. For this reason I blame the west.

Politics is a dirty game and the losers are the ordianry people inc most of the soldiers who only joined up to earn a living.

I bet you if Putin, Truss, Binden were pushed to the front line to lead the charge, they would soon change their minds re fighting and talk as would most other world leaders

As Russian media is more heavily controlled than ours, I can appreciate many of the Russians hearing about X wanting a referendum and joining Russia to protect it's people - this is what the west is doing protecting Ukraine from evil Putin and a lot of Russians see it like that for their side mainly due to the mis-info served up by Putin and his B's

To be in Russia and stand up to Putin could result in jail or worse and I'm sure that even many at the top want Putin out but too fearful to say anyhting

I fear a misunderstanding and as Tuss has a big mouth and rarely does anything quietly re Ukraine, I fear that England is a bigger target, main target for Putin and if we were nuked, I bet you USA and France would hold off in the hope of do nothing and be safe.

I'm not sure what to do but fearful especially for our children and grandkids.

There is also a massive possibility of a nuclear power stattion being hit in the Ukraine and this will affect the west and Russia but as we all know, Putin does not care he and his cronies will be safe just like other world leaders

If I was younger, I'd be on thestreets demanding all world leaders in the even of conflict led from the front on the front line and I'm confident the world would be a safer place as most of them are armchair woarriors and have bukers full to the brim with food/meds/etc.

Actually I'm very angry and I don't often wish this but I hope someone takes out Putin then after that both sides behave and not meddle in another country (Just look at what Libya has been turned into as well as Iraq - they may have had leaders our lot were not happy with just like they were not happy with ours but the countries are now dustbins and millions are suffering)

"Why wold he"?
For reasons stated by me and I reiterate:

Putin will be killed by his own if he backs down now having thousands of his troops killed/injured and country on her knees.

If Putin do go nuclear he has nothing to lose as he's dead anyway, 76+ years old and not long to live based on the average age for a man over there.

He is not rational he is only thinking about his life and if he feels he is going he may go out with a bang.

Only solution I can see is that one of his own takes him out right now.

It's not all Putins fault, read my previous comments.

With Truss in number 10 and lacking diplomacy skills, the risk is greater.

What about his children, so he wouldn't care about them being blown to kingdom come?

Putins 69 not 76

Not really but Russia is vast and they have at least a hundred secure bunkers that a stocked to the top with food/meds/guns/etc/etc and he is hoping
for a limited war, EG several nunkes on the uk lets say 4 and three work wiping out out most of London, Brum and manchester and then the fall out will do the rest. Lets say the uk manages to fire of 20 and 15 work, Russia is so vast many will survice even longer term

The French and the USA will hope that just attacking the uk means they will not get attacked and peace will breakout with Putin assisanted soon after that

<applauds>

Agree with every word of this.

My Ukrainian guests are Russian speakers, you know, like Putin used as an excuse for invading, and you know what, they are not grateful to him for attacking their country.
This war is on Putin. It is not ‘both sides’.

Lets say the uk manages to fire of 20 and 15 work, Russia is so vast many will survice even longer term

If you want to play with the maths then maybe have a look at what's in the public domain:

The UK has at least one of it's Vanguard boats on station at any one time...maybe more, we don't know, we don't need to know.

Each single boat can carry up to 16 missiles, each missile can carry up to 8 independently targeted warheads..

Even with a few failures I'm not sure I'd be assuming all would well for many people in the Rodina after a UK strike.

All hearsay of course. That's just one scenario, won't necessarily happen that way, and why assassinate him after he's done all that, why not before.

I don't think he's going to nuke us. He'll might up his cyber war.

Putin has failed in Ukraine and his people know that.

He’s ordered up more troops and they’re protesting.

Putin is on his way out, and he does not single handedly have the ability to press the button, there are others in the process, and none of them are going to want to sacrifice their families to the process. And sheltering in a bunker isn’t going to gain them anything if there’s no country to go back to at the end of it all.

Added to which, given the state of the rest of Russia’s weaponry, I wouldn’t be so sure that their nuclear weapons are up to the job anyway, in which case it would be a costly embarrassment when Russia fires what amounts to a nerf gun and is nuked off the face of the earth.

Put it this way. Russia and China do business in USD as they don't trust in each other's currency (a very broad way of talking about economics but that's the gist of it). Crossing any kind of nuclear line (low-yield use in a depopulated area, for example) will piss off China. Thus no more business for Russia. Putin's MO is to be in the history books as the man who reunited "Russia" not to briefly command a burned-out landscape (he's not gone full Dr Strangelove quite yet).

Do I know he's sane and 100% won't fire a weapon? No (doubt anyone knows this).

Are there people on the ground and intelligence feeding back and forth between all sides at all times being paid to monitor this kind of thing? Yes. Have they seen any mobilisation of hardware? Not yet. They probably (hopefully) will not.

Even in the 80s (in the time of publications & Govt war planning), like Operation Square Leg - determining the supplies, help & government ability in a limited nuclear assault on London, a full MAD scenario would be preceded by the use of smaller, battlefield nukes in the theatre of war.

It has never really been ‘one nuke & off we all go with everybody sending them flying!’ scenario.

There has never been global consensus on No First Use of nuclear weapons, except for. China, who have a definitive No First Use policy; India have a No First Use (unless biological or chemical agents are used against the country & its population), and Israel who have nuclear weapons, but also never admit to having nuclear weapons cough-Dimona-cough.

From GlobalZero.org;

“France, North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States maintain policies that permit the first use of nuclear weapons in a conflict.

“The 2018 U.S. Nuclear Posture Review (NPR) maintains the policy “the United States would only consider the employment of nuclear weapons in extreme circumstances to defend the vital interests of the United States, its allies, and partners.”

If the UK even had a small device detonated on its population, Russia is guaranteed to be welcoming our Trident missiles from our V class subs, and the US would pile is, as stated above, as an ally of the US.

If PutIn dropped one on Ukraine, would we retaliate as one of our allies? Well, it depends. Like the US, the UK, France et al with a nuclear capability would probably consider multiple variables before pressing the ‘big red button’. One bomb on an allied country may not be a sudden call to arms for all.

Is this a dangerous time? Certainly. As someone with a hobby of crochet, nuclear disarmament & atomic history; I’m not running to the hills shouting, “The Russians are coming!”. But I am definitely rattled a little.

I am a Cold War baby, with Threads, Peter Watkin’s The War Game, The Day After and When the Wind Blows as my teenage video viewing. We had 4 minute warnings & constant sabre rattling in a 40 year Willy waving contest. This time is different, I think we have a man that has almost absolute power & is losing the plot (through illness? Aging? Mental Illness?) and so it’s hard to no predict his actions.

Even so, there are layers of command between PutIn and The Bomb, and I pray they’ll de-escalate if they ever get the command to fire.

How does worrying help?

Is it worth my time?

Putin needs China more than they need him and China won't want a nuclear war. I'm sure that western diplomatics are talking with China and India and Brazil and working out strategies with them to calm Putin down and give him a way out that saves face.

But really, there's no point worrying about it, there's nothing we as individuals can do to change things so try and step away from the media for a bit.

I don’t understand the Russians, did anyone see the report on sky saying, Russia is not threatening anyone with nuclear weapons, there will be no winners is nuclear war and it must never be fought? Why do they always say the polar opposites within days of each other it confuses me

In part to cause anxiety and uncertainty in the west..especially amongst the general public.

We had a debate similar to this in the Spring when Putin made nuclear related comments, that died down eventually. Obviously it kicked off again after his comment a few days ago..if this conflict continues well into the winter - which it probably will - I'd expect him to raise the threat again and there will be another round of debate on the subject....

Did Putin ever actually say he would be the first to use nuclear weapons? Or did he just say he would retaliate with them? Afaik it’s the latter.

I see the Russian bots are busy tonight on this thread.....

How is that relevant to Putin or to the fact we have a reckless, inexperienced, loose-mouthed, gobshite for a Prime Minister?

I guarantee if Russia nuked us that NATO would back off not get involved . We would be seen as very unfortunate but they would make it clear they don’t want to escalate to ww3. Basically they can say all they want now that an attack one one nato member is an attack on all but we are a small island and if it happened they wouldn’t want to be dragged into it

I guarantee if Russia nuked us that NATO would back off not get involved . We would be seen as very unfortunate but they would make it clear they don’t want to escalate to ww3.

Um...so....Russia nukes UK. Whatever element of UKs Trident fleet is at sea sends in return well over 100 warheads PDQ.

Makes what NATO would or wouldn't do in that scenario a bit irrelevant, let alone thoughts of escalation........

True. I just feel like we can’t count on NATO s support in an extreme situation

France and the USA ie the only others with nukes will cower when the uk is nuked in the hope they are not directly targeted, trust me.

I'm not sure what the solution is other than someo take putin and his three cronies out then lock up those in the west that goad russia over the years - politicians are all the same in it for themselves

Leaders shoul lead all battles from the front line and not hide in bunkers etc while sending thousands of young men to their deaths.

Ah another ‘both sides’ shill. Well done, you had me going for one whole post.

NATO will retaliate. To do otherwise would be to basically hand Putin a crown and tell him he’s king of the world now, as the only person willing to use nukes.
It’s not about sticking up for their little ally England, it’s about their own long term interests, which do not include letting Putin get away with nuclear mass murder.

Sorry, just seen all the posts about UK being nuked. Can we not believe that please. I'm trying to live in sweet denial he will nuke anywhere.

@Idroppedthescrewinthetuna I was literally going to type something similar to you!