Russia cutting off gaa supplies.. How worried should Europeans be?

[Ewetoo]

Russia switched off the gas to Germany on Wednesday, they said it was for maintenance & for 2 days only . Russia announced this morning due to more maintenance needed they won't be switching it on as planned & gave no date for it to be switched on... I find this very scary & the winter is already predicted to be bitterly cold (can't find link to weather prediction)

They didnt always. For a lot of people, a roaring fire was a luxury. They couldnt afford the fuel.

Rationing and learning to live with less permanently.

Well most of us already live with less in terms of housing costs & disposable income so how much less are we talking?

dadya
agree but they won’t because they know the public won’t tolerate it.

Crocwok
I do think there is a huge difference though ….. Putin/Russia is a dictatorship in all but name. The population can’t vote then out. They are in the midst of one of the most brutal crackdowns where any dissenting voice is immediately imprisoned or killed. Look at the spate of unexplained deaths of some of their richest people who have dared to question. They may be broke but they don’t care. They will happily see their population face unending hardship because their is nothing they can do about it

We have plenty of gas the trouble is we send it all to Europe!
www.energylivenews.com/2022/01/31/how-did-the-uk-manage-to-double-gas-exports-amid-energy-crisis/

Indeed. But I thought we’d left the bad old days behind. It’s shocking that in the modern world the average person is worried about heating their home.

The west is at war with the east. We need to support our allies. I totally agree with sharing our resources to keep us all going.

Less choice. If you have much choice you will be hardest hit now. The West generally needs to get used to that. Countries that consume less will barely notice. Same on a micro level.

Countries like Russia and China can move quickly. One person and at most three close confidantes make the decision. Democracies suffer because it takes too long to make urgent decisions without some sort of green audit or public impact assessment.

Probably quite worried. He’s mad and it’s not going to be a bumpy ride

As long as the government continues to frame this as an issue with energy prices there will be problems with people whinging about hardship. They need to be honest: We are at war with Russia. Then people are more likely to accept the reduction in standard of living.

If we say outright that we're at war with Russia, people will panic and people make poor decisions when they're panicking (remember the toilet roll saga of 2020?) so it would probably cause more problems than it solves.

I do think though that we need to start reframing the energy issue as "not enough to go around" rather than "getting really expensive now"
Because people who are fortunate enough to be able to afford it are contributing to the problem by not making adjustments rather than everybody pulling together to make sure that the energy we have available is able to cover everybody's basic needs.

Qik
I agree but I would say that the population has to take responsibility. In the past 25 years, various govt (although mainly Tories) have tried but the public unwillingness to ever face reality and realise that there is no perfect policy has stymied every attempt.
Re-build nuclear power station - public said no
Fracking - public said no
renewables - public said yes but not anywhere where I live and at no extra cost

So successive govt did nothing

No point in worrying or getting stressed about it tbh - what can you even do. We had years to sort this out we have relied on oil and gas from seriously dodgy countries for so long - why didn’t we spend those years getting better set up with solar and wind power and stuff instead of just knowing this was coming and just hoping it wouldn’t ffs

berween this and climate change the worlds fucked anyway and we’ve not got long left so I’m just gonna do my best to enjoy what’s left before it’s all gone 🙈don’t see anything changing or getting better tbh

Id rather be cold, (solar meets our electric needs) than give more money to Putin. We went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan for a lot less than what he has done in Ukraine we need to stand with our allies and that includes sharing the North Sea gas. We need to be planning and building nuclear plus wind power generation as soon as possible. Heat pumps need to be a priority and replacement gas boilers stoped. We can use this as an advantage to builder and stronger more sustainable future

It isn’t the only source of the continent’s gas. Im pretty sure Spain and Portugal are supplied by North Africa, and then there’s Norwegian gas etc. Some countries have gas in storage, many are putting policies in place to reduce usage, I think things will definitely be hard but on the whole not catastrophic in the West.

This.

Lots of sense on this thread. It's really interesting be it depressing

I agree with you
I started a thread a while back about ways of fighting back, protesting etc and got tips on how to save money.

Because he said it as a sound bite during an interview to bat away criticism of the government doing precisely nothing to quell peoples fears about rapidly rising costs.

China and Russia have planned to destabilise the West for a long time

Russia (Putin) yes, but not China. They need the West to continue to import from them, a broken Europe damages China & we've already seen their population, even though they are under the cosh, push back; refusing to pay mortgages for example.

It's all very finally balanced, if Russia don't sell gas to Europe they need to sell it to the East, if the East can't export to Europe they won't buy gas from Russia. Russia needs gas sales to keep the lid on it's own population.

It seems that a winter of 'not enough' is inevitable.

I think the focus needs to be on ensuring the impact is spread as fairly as possible. I worry that allowing run-away energy prices (let's remember huge profits are forecast for this winter) is purposefully being allowed in the knowledge low to medium earners will severely self-limit. Those who can afford it can choose to continue as normal if they wish.

At this stage I think that well-planned electricity black/brown outs and gas cutouts might be a better idea.

Agree, so many people with their heads in the sand & are clueless as to what's to come.... Our heating usually goes on Oct 15th, going to try & drag out to mid October this year if the weather's mild..

At this stage I think that well-planned electricity black/brown outs and gas cutouts might be a better idea.

Gas cutouts are far more difficult to manage then Electricity cuts, the system needs to have gas running through the network, the only way of cutting it off is at the user's end, via a Smart Meter......?

This.

I'll admit I have absolutely no clue how it would work in practice, other than that France and Germany apparently have gas rationing as part of their winter emergency planning, so I'm guessing there is some mechanism to impose it?

We are on oil (no gas here), so anticipating a chilly winter either way!

Agree. My grandparents didn't have central heating, but the downstairs was kept warm by the range stove and coal fire. I remember being grateful for the fire on winter evenings, especially after a bath.