I envy people who have Faith

[BlueBloodedBlue]

I don't but it must be a real comfort to believe in a higher power and have something that gives a meaning to everything.

That's it really.

Values like homophobia and misogyny?

Oh and last I checked religion also exists in Russia.

If you need the bible to tl you not to murder people I worry for you.

Although I was under the impression that the bible also teaches humility so maybe you're not getting all your lessons from there.

There's strong evidence in the archaeological record that the societal values we view as good predate Christianity by tens of thousands of years. Anthropological fieldwork in first contact situations with non-Western human societies show the same thing. It is likely that those societies will have had deities of some kind - but not the Christian god of the Bible.

But that might be a bit too much history for @Malie .

Preceded by around 70 years of materialistic atheism which set the pattern for the rule of society

This is a fallacy which is easily disproved by history. You really need to read about what some of these so called ‘noble’ societies were really like. Oh yes they had gods but they were very cruel gods. Sorry but you can’t call that bluff. They tried that with the historian Tom Holland.

@Malie does that mean that you accept Christianity is responsible for all the atrocities that took place under the previous Czarist regime, which was wholeheartedly supported by the Russian Orthodox Church? Pogroms against the Jews were part and parcel of this lovely Christian regime. Which lasted for hundreds of years.

So you're blaming the war on atheism now? Typical. You claim to preach love yet you ooze hate and contempt.

@Malie my degree is in prehistoric archaeology so pardon me while I laugh my head off.

And how would you define a 'cruel' god? One who floods an entire world, killing thousands of innocent people, maybe? One who allows one of his fallen angels to ruin a man's life completely as a warped experiment in devotion? That fits the bill.

Well if you can reconcile the atrocities with the teachings of Jesus Christ? Look at his teachings and see whether they were following him and come back to me.

@Malie

So society was built on Christianity, you say here: Just think a bit past the websites you have visited and you will realise that society is actually built on Christianity and it’s values.

Then you say this when challenged on some of the teachings of Christianity: Preceded by around 70 years of materialistic atheism which set the pattern for the rule of society

Sounds consistent... so seriously, which is true?

Oh yes they had gods but they were very cruel gods.

Have you not read the Old Testament?

I will define a merciful God as one who offers forgiveness to us if we will follow him.

You like to pin the blame for the acts of authoritarian regimes solely on atheism. I'm just working along the same lines of 'logic' as you are. You can't have it both ways.

Haven’t you read the teachings of Jesus Christ? Who would not want to follow those teachings?

@Malie that is the weakest evasion of a question I have seen from you yet. I ask again: the Biblical flood would have killed innocent babes in arms. Is that not cruel?

Ah. So they can only be Christians if they do things you like. Whereas atheists who do bad things do so because of atheism. Convenient.

What about the persecution of LGBT people that goes on in Russia. That's ramped right up under the ROC and they certainly back it up with Biblical teaching.

@Malie

Did you want to have a go at answering my questions?

I know it's awkward when someone points out you've made two conflicting statements that can't both be true.

And awkward when it's pointed out how laughably hypocritical it is to call other people's 'gods' cruel if you're a Christian who has actually read and understood the Old Testsment.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe you haven't after all and are just on a wind up.

Haven’t you read the teachings of Jesus Christ? Who would not want to follow those teachings?

I grew up in church and a faith school so I have read the bible many a time, for many years.

Who wouldn't want to follow those teachings? People who don't believe in God. I don't need to believe in God to be a good person. I am a good person because I want to be one. Not in hope of reward or in fear of punishment.

See how easy it is to answer questions directly?

HTH.

@Hvergelmir @Malie is the classic cherrypicking Christian. I have friends who are Christians and they are nothing like her, fortunately. They're a lot better at being Christians and are genuinely kind, caring people. I co-facilitate a support group for relatives of addicts with one. Our faith positions are diametrically opposed and yet here we are, working for the same cause and helping people.

Same here, I know some absolutely wonderful people who are Christian. Kind, warm, loving and accepting.

They'd feel disappointed that particular poster is claiming to champion their religion.

Well as you belong to a society which kills millions of unborn children legally how can you object?

So do we actually. You appear to think that because a person defends the Christian faith against attacks like on this thread they must be a terrible person.

As for murder, well the God of the Old Testament goes around murdering loads of people, almost the entire population of the world (both animal and human) in Noah's Ark, Lot's wife, loads of collateral damage murders in his gambling game with the Devil over Job's faithfulness and so on. 'Thou shalt not murder' looks a bit Do As I Say, Not Do As I Do.

@mattermore God can't murder, He is the Creator of life and as such, can take it away at any time.

@Malie

You still haven't answered that poster's question... you've (yet again) simply responded with another question.

Here's the one you were asked:

The Biblical flood would have killed innocent babes in arms. Is that not cruel?

If you can't answer such basic questions about scripture then you need to study more before entering into conversations about faith tbh.

I’m not championing my religion I’m just answering questions.

Why are you complaining about the Flood when society has legally killed far more innocent babies? Is that not cruel?

@Malie, well I would have expected you to be a Forced Birther. You're consistent. Babes in arms are usually already born, but to someone like you of course it would be the same thing. When it comes to reproductive choices I stand for the woman who is already alive. You take a different stand - fair enough. Doesn't make you a better person, although you believe it does.

And nobody is attacking Christianity on here. You've been told this many times on this thread. We are merely pointing out that there are different points of view which are equally valid and that there are many different ways of living a life guided by morals and conscience. No faith is necessary to achieve this. You refuse to accept this and place yourself and your beliefs above those who do not believe. It is this arrogance that we are calling out, not your faith.