I envy people who have Faith

[BlueBloodedBlue]

I don't but it must be a real comfort to believe in a higher power and have something that gives a meaning to everything.

That's it really.

@Malie

Sorry there is no point in discussing if you are going to be rude and personal. The problem is that people do not like faith and that’s why they object.

The irony and lack of self awareness is staggering...

It's worth noting that a number of people on this thread replied to the poor poster upthread who is in a desperately sad situation, sharing our best wishes and sympathy, telling her we hope she's ok. Some of us may not share her faith but we all instinctively wanted to support her.

You've chosen to keep sharing angry posts with people who disagree with you rather than sharing any sympathy or empathy with a fellow Christian deeply struggling.

She's gone unnoticed by you as you are preoccupied with defending yourself rather than showing any care for others.

Not very in keeping with the Christian teachings you say you believe, is it?

Unreal.

You have been incredibly rude and insulting on this thread.

You might want to read back your own posts and identify your own personal attacks on people, and then reflect on why this led me to say what I did.

And people are saying what they are because they object to faith, but because they object to the way you are talking to them.

And there is a difference between objecting to faith and disagreeing with what religions say. Perhaps you are taking the tone you are because you have failed to understand that distinction.

But you are living in a society which has had 2000 years of Christian influence and not an ancient Bedouin society. You have obviously never read the Torah as there are clear instructions that rape is forbidden and punishable. In the societies in which this was birthed this was revolutionary. The same as the relationships we see with Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and his wife, etc.. And with the revolution that came with Christ women and men are actually restored to equality as Paul teaches. You really need to read the whole book not just cherry pick bits out. It’s the whole story that matters.

This was what I was ment to be quoting, when I wrote this

"That's very selective editing, surely you know there is plenty of unpalatable texts in the good book"

So in summary, religion, could be debated that it's written by humans for humans, as a system of guiding and controlling humans.

And it could be said that real faith is not like that at all.

Funny that when one simply puts ones point of view one is met with these sort of accusations. I think a lot of projection is going on.

@Malie

It's not projection, you just haven't come across as a kind, decent, warm person in your posts which are full of anger and at times vitriol 🤷🏻‍♀️

Happily that poster who is in a horrible situation had support from others, as she deserves.

Your silence on it combined with your insistence on responding to posts before and after hers, but not hers, is so very telling about you.

As I said, life really is nicer when you're not so angry. Or judgemental. Or unkind. I would recommend that you try it sometime

@Malie

Funny that when one simply puts ones point of view one is met with these sort of accusations.

Oh and it's not an accusation out of thin air, it's demonstrable fact that you ignored someone in need of support but continued to post angrily defending yourself to other posters.

Love thy neighbour doesn't seem to have gotten through to you even with a victim of awful hardship literally sharing their story on the thread you're reading and posting on.

Something for you to think about. But you won't!

@Malie I think the distinction between faith (the beliefs of one person and how they guide that person's life) and religion (organised,k involving power structures and people operating in groups) has been well established on this thread.

Many of us atheists on here have issues with religion, its uses of power and its uses of old texts. I don't see many of us having issues with faith.

You on the other hand seem to have an issue with atheism as a belief. You are of course entitled to think of it in any way you please, but it would be good if you could express that in more respectful terms.

Maybe I don't understand Faith enough, but all the topics in religion are constructed by humans.

i think if you look back I began by explaining my faith, which was the object of the thread - a lot of other people were giving opinion before I joined in.

Unless that faith comes by divine revelation

@Malie

i think if you look back I began by explaining my faith, which was the object of the thread - a lot of other people were giving opinion before I joined in.

You are conveniently missing my point.

You had the chance on the thread to share kind words with someone genuinely in need, in real time.

Instead you've ignored her completely to send snarky posts to other posters who disagreed with you.

Other people, both Christian and atheists alike, replied to her with their best wishes and sympathy because that's a natural response for kind, caring people.

It's sad you lack the self awareness to not see how poor form is is of you to have not done so.

And how distinctly 'unchristian' it is, based on your own description of your faith.

I hope you have a good weekend and find yourself moving towards the peace and happiness you seem to be lacking.

The stuff about homosexuality is wrong, women should be subservient, abortion should be banned certainly hasn't. And more and more countries are realising this.

I think the distinction between faith (the beliefs of one person and how they guide that person's life) and religion (organised,k involving power structures and people operating in groups) has been well established on this thread.

Hmm. Has it? I’m not sure we’re all on the same page on that one, myself. Where would my faith as a Catholic fit in that? I think this may be the kind of distinction that seems more meaningful to non-religious people than it does to religious people.

Not saying you can’t have a problem with religion, mine or anyone else’s or the concept in general. But I think saying “of course I have a problem with THIS thing, but not THAT thing” sounds a bit odd to people for whom the two things are effectively one.

@GoldenOmber I suppose for me that operates on a personal level. I can respect your Roman Catholic faith whilst seeing the RC church as a dogmatic, corrupt, morally bankrupt organisation. If I equate the two 100% I would end up assuming that all Roman Catholics are absolutely fine with what happened in its orphanages and with abuse by priests and I know it isn't that simple. Pope Francis for example is someone with whom I still disagree on very many things, but I find him a lot more relatable and sensible than his predecessors. Faith and religion are absolutely intertwined, but the Venn diagram between them neither a perfect circle nor two separate circles.

@Malie
How then would you be able to define , divine revelation meaning and without the knowledge of human religion how could the divine revelation be attributed to God.?

Well done @wellhelloitsme for highlighting the demonstrably unchristian behaviour of this poster. Imagine considering oneself a happy person, with a sense of peace and commitment, all thanks to the God you believe in, and not finding it in yourself to empathise with a fellow human in distress, all because you’re so determined to prove a point to others. Sad.

@Malie it comes down to the fact that --

• you've been judgemental when others have been open
• you've been cruel when others have been kind
• you have been prideful where others have been humble
• you have dismissed the beliefs of others while demanding noone dismiss yours
• you look down on other people

I think you need the Bible more than we do!

So then it's a distinction between 'I respect your right to believe what you like, but I don't need to respect the beliefs themselves', maybe? That's fine, it's just not a distinction between 'faith' and 'religion' as people on the inside of a religion would see it.

Or it's more like, 'faith is the set of beliefs about God/s and/or metaphysical things an individual might have, religion is the structure and rituals and groups and institutions around that'? But again I don't think that is a distinction that makes sense if your religious practice is an expression of your faith - like, as a Catholic you can say "I very much disapprove of the following things the church has done," but it's also part of your faith that the church is still God's church - the community and the practice are tied up with the personal metaphysical beliefs because the personal metaphysical beliefs include things about the community and the practice.

@GoldenOmber I think it's more the second than the first, because not respecting people's beliefs comes under being rude IMO. I don't have to agree with the beliefs, but respect comes under the heading of essential courtesy. There are exceptions here - going back to the WBC, I do not and will not ever respect their beliefs because part of those beliefs is the concept that it is OK to wilfully and knowingly cause pain to people who have been bereaved. But they are an extreme.

I've always known that it is possible to be part of a religion and yet disapprove of some of the things it has done/is still doing - because that eventually is how positive change can happen.

About WBC (whose beliefs I absolutely wouldn’t accept either!) - there’s a fantastic book called ‘Unfollow’ written by Megan Phelps-Roper, who grew up in the church and did the funeral picketing and was their social media spokesperson for a whole, about how she left and changed her views. It’s not strictly relevant to the conversation here, I just recommend it a lot because it’s so good.

I've heard of her. I tend to read fiction more than anything else, but I may make an exception for this one.

You are a pleasure to converse with.