I envy people who have Faith

[BlueBloodedBlue]

I don't but it must be a real comfort to believe in a higher power and have something that gives a meaning to everything.

That's it really.

But it’s not the truth. It maybe is your personal belief, and that’s fine, but it’s definitely not a universal truth.

You’re conflating ‘universally true’ with ‘universally accepted’, though.

Either her claim about God is true or it’s not. If it’s true, then it’s true regardless of who believes it. She might be wrong that it’s true, but she’s not wrong to say that if it’s true then it’s objectively true, in a way that’s not just about everybody’s personal beliefs.

I'll openly admit that I was agnostic for much of my life...to be honest, even now, I don't "know" if there is a God. However, I am a member of a church (an amazing church whose minister used to be a research scientist!) and, the more I go, the more I'm moved by the teachings of Christ - teachings of unconditional love, hope and kindness that I do my best to follow in my everyday life. It is a big comfort.

That should have been ‘jars’ with their experience of reality, not hard.
And ‘unjust and unfair’. Not ‘ just and unfair’

i really should learn to preview!

Did you actually just blame the war on Ukraine on atheism?

My dear friend, I do not base my life on personal belief or feelings. I base it on evidence. Your statement that the Bible is just a ‘collection of stories of hearsay’ is actually a proof that you haven’t bothered to investigate the evidence.

Truth is truth whether everyone believes it or no-one believes it.

I blame it on wickedness

@Malie doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality and masturbation are sins? That has led to people being persecuted. Just in the sense of having basic compassion for others, and a respect for science (homosexuality is natural), lots of people are going to be upset by (or non believers in) the Bible for that reason alone.

I can't say if God is real or not, but if a God exists, then I think he or she (or they) would be mightily pissed at homophobia.

@Malie

if You actually read what those verses say and put them in context, they refer to judging people not philosophical systems.

Well exactly. And you've been judging people on here. Repeatedly.

So you're going against the word of the god you believe in.

I'm starting to think your reading comprehension is incredibly poor. Either that or you're incredibly disingenuous.

Funny but you’re doing exactly the same. Just read what you’ve put. ‘Physician heal thyself!’ 😀

@malie I just wanted to add that I agree with your assertion that:

Truth is truth whether everyone believes it or no-one believes it.

However you've not progressed far enough. We need to add the humility that none of us, when it comes to the idea of a God, knows what that specific truth really is. And we never will.

Maybe we need the humility to believe that God knows the truth and we can come to it if he reveals it to us

@Malie none of us know. And that includes you.

And that's fine! Its fine not to know. Its how we were made.

Of course we can all cherish our beliefs, and we should all respect each others beliefs, but beliefs are all we can claim them to be. We won't ever know.

@Malie

Funny but you’re doing exactly the same. Just read what you’ve put. ‘Physician heal thyself!’

I'm not going against the moral framework I believe in. You are.

I'm not judging all religious people. I said upthread that my mum is religious and she is my favourite person - warm, kind, accepting and loving.

I'm judging you for being disingenuous and / or hypocritical as you're going against the word of the holy text you claim to live by...

I am very familiar with bible. There is no actual evidence. I repeat, no one has ever met your god.

Maybe we need the humility to believe that God knows the truth and we can come to it if he reveals it to us

You are now conflating the concept of humility with the concept of taking the leap of faith. They are not the same thing.

I am humble enough to accept that I cannot know whether or not God exists. I just believe he does not - that is my leap of faith. You have not yet reached that level of humility because you cannot accept that what you have is belief and no more.

Belief is enough for me.

So it’s alright for you to be judgmental and hypocritical about it? So it’s okay just to accept what people say because it’s loving even if they are talking nonsense? So it’s okay to accept that atheism is logical even if it isn’t? I think you actually need to read the teachings of Jesus and the Bible before you start judging others on their faith. I believe that nothing making something is illogical. You might believe it is logical but I believe it is not logical

Well if you believe in God that makes sense.

It makes absolutely no sense if you don’t.

The core of your thinking seems to be a complete inability to understand that there are other people who genuinely don’t believe in God.

And it is not immoral to give an opinion on that

And it is not immoral to give an opinion on that

Indeed it isn't. But it's an opinion, not a universal truth.

I believe that nothing making something is illogical. You might believe it is logical but I believe it is not logical

Thank you for accepting that your position and mine are all about belief and no more.

I think @Malie you're just going to have to accept what all of the rest of us knew at an earlier age - there are just some things we as humans will never know. That's the fact that seems to be making you so unhappy and angry, but sadly being angry at us isn't going to change it. And we can't change that fact for you, sadly. You're just going to have to either continue to be angry at every person who doesn't think exactly the same as you, or choose instead to just enjoy the fact that you have cherished beliefs, and that you find happiness in them.

@Malie
Of course it is not immoral to give an opinion.

Its now the way you give yours. Your sneering contempt for those with different views from you is clear.

It is possible to respect opinions you disagree with. Both theism and atheism seem to me to be positions worthy of respect.

So it’s alright for you to be judgmental and hypocritical about it?

I have judged you (not Christians in general, specifically you) for being rude to people and for being disingenuous / unwilling to learn about concepts you don't understand like theoretical discussions.

I haven't been judgemental of other Christians on the thread who have been respectful and genuinely engaged in discussions. And able to understand theoretical debate.

So it’s okay to accept that atheism is logical even if it isn’t? I think you actually need to read the teachings of Jesus and the Bible before you start judging others on their faith. I believe that nothing making something is illogical. You might believe it is logical but I believe it is not logical

And you're entitled to that belief. People are entitled to disagree and to expect you to be able to do so politely without being rude and saying they will never find peace or happiness.

I don't need to read the teachings of Jesus and the Bible because I did so for many years, thanks.

The fact you don't believe you're acting against the Bible quotes I shared earlier shows your complete lack of self awareness and also lack of understanding of the book you claim to live by.

Yes, you are right. Thank you for the distinction.

Which happens regardless of how many people believe in
god