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I envy people who have Faith

772 replies

BlueBloodedBlue · 27/08/2022 20:38

I don't but it must be a real comfort to believe in a higher power and have something that gives a meaning to everything.

That's it really.

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wellhelloitsme · 01/09/2022 09:31

Literally every known society has had religious beliefs, a god, or gods, or searched for god, or made their own gods, because as humans we simply have a need for God. The craving for, and search for God is a very basic anthropological fact, even without faith.

There are some really interesting thoughts on this need / desire, if you're interested in reading other people's POV on the topic, including:

www.bbc.com/future/article/20190529-do-humans-have-a-religion-instinct

MrsMcisaCt · 01/09/2022 09:47

@DaisyJoy1 I used to be like you. But surely you have met people who have prayed and prayed and still had their child die of cancer, or had some other devastating event or news given to them? What do you say to those people? As I have written about earlier in this thread, I no longer believe, and I used to be so full of faith, like you. But I can't honestly look at this world and believe in a loving, powerful God. Where is He during floods, wars and shootings? Why doesn't he intervene for other people like he apparently does for you??

Moonmelodies · 01/09/2022 09:49

Is this the same god that drowned millions of kittens in the great flood (according to the Bible)?

Pumpkin314 · 01/09/2022 10:05

@DaisyJoy1 Your story of the man your church being miraculously healed through prayer does remind me of this song from tim minchin 😉

Onebreathmore · 01/09/2022 10:12

@DaisyJoy1

You might want to reflect on the phrase ‘no one co-operates with those who are against them’. Pissing off people by insulting them is a terrible conversion technique. Yet you seem to have reframed the offense you have caused as a sign of you being a really good, honest Christian. It’s not. It’s just a sign that you are a terrible communicator and really quite intolerant person.

I remember hearing a women talking who used to be in the Westboro Baptist church. She said that the offense they generated made them feel more holy. That is not a good psychological place to go to.

drbuzzaro · 01/09/2022 14:22

if having faith involves viewing anyone who doesn't (or has a different one) as having pitiful hellish lives then no I dont

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 15:14

MrsMcisaCt · 01/09/2022 09:47

@DaisyJoy1 I used to be like you. But surely you have met people who have prayed and prayed and still had their child die of cancer, or had some other devastating event or news given to them? What do you say to those people? As I have written about earlier in this thread, I no longer believe, and I used to be so full of faith, like you. But I can't honestly look at this world and believe in a loving, powerful God. Where is He during floods, wars and shootings? Why doesn't he intervene for other people like he apparently does for you??

Sorry to hear that MrsMcisaCt. I personally know two couples who have lost a child, and not in early infancy. One died of leukaemia and one from a genetic disorder. They still have faith and are active members of their church.

SnoozyLucy7 · 01/09/2022 15:20

DaisyJoy1 · 01/09/2022 08:14

As a Christian I feel desperately sorry for people who don't have a relationship with God. On so many levels. One of my Christian friends doesn't believe in hell as a literal place. She said that she believes that hell is actually the absence of God - people who are Christians will spend eternity with God, as He promised, and those who aren't, won't. And to be in an eternal state of separate from, or lacking God, is itself hell.

And I thought that this is true in life as well. Humans aren't meant to be separate from God. There is a God shaped hole inside all of us, and we desperately try to fill it with so many things. Friends, food, drugs, possessions, alcohol, career achievements, etc etc etc. But until we have a real relationship with God, we can't know real peace or real happiness. It's hellish to try to go through life without God. Looking back now, I don't know how I found purpose in life without God, or how I managed to get through the hard bits.

It's not just about having faith that everything will be okay and knowing that this world isn't our real home, although this is a huge comfort.

For me, it's about the knowing and understanding that we are so loved, beyond anything that we could ever imagine. It's about the fact that a God so powerful that He created galaxies, oceans, mountains, vast rainforests, etc, loved us so much that He voluntarily suffered a miserable life, being rejected and hated by the people He loved. He voluntarily suffered a death that was excruciating, humiliating, and degrading, all from His love for us.

And despite His great power, He still loves us enough on an individual and personal level that cares so deeply about the small details of our lives, He wants a personal relationship with us, He wants to hear us tell him our fears and our worries and our successes and our thanks. He stays with us always, listens to our prayers, and answers them.

I have always suffered with massive anxiety and one day I just couldn't cope with it anymore. I remember crying and asking God to show me that He was with me, and that He loved me, because it was a really dark day where I just felt so alone and couldn't feel His presence at all. At the time, I was living in a country where Christianity is not accepted, and while there are Christians, they are persecuted, and it's all very underground. I had been there for years and had never seen anyone publicly acknowledge or speak about God. But after that prayer, I went downstairs to the shop and a woman who had been quietly shopping when I approached took one look at me and, as if she recognised me, came towards me and was telling me with urgency and happiness that Jesus loves me, and that God is with us. When I left, she went back to her shopping. She wasn't just preaching to everyone, it seems that message was only for me.

When I got home I cried with happiness because that was the first time I had the realisation that the same God who created literally EVERYTHING loved me so much that He gave me what I most needed, when I most needed it.

Similarly, when a man from our church was rushed to hospital with a life-threatening condition, and things were looking really bleak, his wife asked us to pray for him as he went into surgery. We all did, and when he woke up the doctor was astounded that not only had he survived the surgery, but he seemed entirely healthy. Even the symptoms and side effects of the illness, that he should have had to live with for the rest of his life if, by some miracle he managed to survive, had completely gone. He was completely cured. I find that amazing too. That a God who is literally everywhere and in all things still hears and answers and heals individuals.

I feel sorry for people who are closed off to God because until you can open yourself up to God and accept His desire to have a relationship with you, you will miss beautiful and powerful things like this. You will miss this overwhelming sense of love which is far beyond any human love and which even as Christians we can't fully comprehend. It's so hard to explain to atheists because I know that this probably sounds mental. I would have thought it was a bit mental before I found a personal relationship with God and experienced it for myself.

But at some point, when you know God personally, atheists sound a bit crazy too 😁For me, hearing someone say they don't believe God exists sounds as insane as hearing someone say that, say, the Queen doesn't exist, or something. Like, how can anyone actually believe that there is no God? How can someone think that this perfectly functioning world came from absolutely nowhere? How can anyone believe in creation without a creator? But the things that make me know God with the most certainty are the things that have happened in my PERSONAL relationship with Him, things that can't be objectively proven (or even clearly explained!) to anyone but to me mean the whole world. And I think that's how it is for all Christians.

I really, really wish everyone could experience a relationship with God like they deserve to.

The man survived the surgery thanks to the skilled efforts of the surgeons, not because of your god. Honestly, did any one thank the surgeons for saving this man’s life? Seriously, if f I was that surgeon and everyone was thanking god and not me - after years of education, specialist training and years of subsequent professional experience, I would be totally gutted!

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 15:20

Onebreathmore · 01/09/2022 10:12

@DaisyJoy1

You might want to reflect on the phrase ‘no one co-operates with those who are against them’. Pissing off people by insulting them is a terrible conversion technique. Yet you seem to have reframed the offense you have caused as a sign of you being a really good, honest Christian. It’s not. It’s just a sign that you are a terrible communicator and really quite intolerant person.

I remember hearing a women talking who used to be in the Westboro Baptist church. She said that the offense they generated made them feel more holy. That is not a good psychological place to go to.

Please don't use the tiny hate group that is the Westboro Baptist Church as an example of the thoughts and actions of the Christian community at large.

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 15:33

Hawkins001 · 31/08/2022 22:47

Personally, I believe in the strengths of the human spirit and the human mind, to persevere and achieve our goals. Without the need of any reliance on mythical beings, but I know different perspectives for different people.

Milk, no sugar please 😋

So, it appears you do have faith of sorts; in this case, in humanity.

SnoozyLucy7 · 01/09/2022 15:33

DaisyJoy1 · 01/09/2022 08:38

Of COURSE it doesn't mean everyone is miserable. Did you misread my post? At no moment did I say that everyone is miserable. On the contrary. People often find things to fill the 'God shaped hole' in their hearts. But these things don't bring long term satisfaction. Until you have a relationship with God, you will always be lacking something. That something is the relationship with God, which is arguably the most important relationship a human can have.

I did say that trying to make it through life's ups and downs without God is hellish - perhaps you misunderstood this and took this to mean everyone is miserable. No, I don't think that everyone is miserable, but I do think that it is hellish to have to navigate life's ups and downs without God. Sure, the good times feel good but the bad or confusing or scary times are unbearable.

I'm also not sure what humility has to do with humans needing God. Nothing I have said is a praise of myself or of any Christian as a person. Is it, rather, a praise of God and His goodness and that is not something we can downplay simply because others might find it uncomfortable or unpleasant or insulting. As Paul said, “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.” It's impossible to know God and to know God and to not speak of Him in this way, nor will I downplay the importance and necessity of having a relationship with God simply to please others who don't agree. Sorry!😊

Seriously, I don’t have a relationship with your god and I am not lacking anything that I can not find within myself. Please stop being so patronising as if the all the truths of the universe have been revealed to you, which they definitely haven’t. I am glad you have found your truth, your core belief, but it’s completely subjective. Just please stop with all the pontification and keep it to your self

justaladyLOL · 01/09/2022 15:40

I think we live - we die - the end
Faith does not mean anything

justaladyLOL · 01/09/2022 15:42

"The man survived the surgery thanks to the skilled efforts of the surgeons, not because of your god. Honestly, did any one thank the surgeons for saving this man’s life? Seriously, if f I was that surgeon and everyone was thanking god and not me - after years of education, specialist training and years of subsequent professional experience, I would be totally gutted!"

Father is a surgeon he says exactly this.
When he hears that nonsense he could go nuclear
He saves someone life and they say God saved me
No he did not

sammylady37 · 01/09/2022 15:47

There is a God shaped hole inside all of us, and we desperately try to fill it with so many things. Friends, food, drugs, possessions, alcohol, career achievements, etc etc etc

Honestly…such nonsense.
Speak for yourself, please. There is no ‘god shaped hole’ inside me that I am desperately trying to fill.

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 16:05

The man survived the surgery thanks to the skilled efforts of the surgeons, not because of your god. Honestly, did any one thank the surgeons for saving this man’s life?

Of course we should also be thanking the surgeon for their skills and hard work! Some surgeons are also Christians and I expect pray for help and healing and thank God when a patient recovers well after their surgery. I don't personally know any surgeons, but I do know Christian doctors.

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 16:13

Extract from an article in the Journal of the Royal College of General Practitioners on the subject:

'Perhaps the most important contribution to general practice from those who believe in divine healing relates to the extension of whole person medicine into a fourth or spiritual dimension. General practitioners may come to consider a patient's health in physical, psychological, social and spiritual terms. This idea has led to the setting up of a working party of the Churches Council for Health and Healing and the Royal College of General Practitioners, which is considering the effects of extending patient care into the spiritual sphere and ways of encouraging
this extension.'

Moonmelodies · 01/09/2022 16:18

Simar to harvest festivals where people thank god for providing the conditions for bountiful crops. It's the farmers they should thank, who often deliver the crops despite the conditions.

Moonmelodies · 01/09/2022 16:18

*similar

Bloodoranged · 01/09/2022 16:19

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 15:20

Please don't use the tiny hate group that is the Westboro Baptist Church as an example of the thoughts and actions of the Christian community at large.

There is a similarity between the victim complex of the PP and that of groups like the WBC.

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 16:22

I don't see DaisyJoy as having a victim complex, that's your perspective. The WBC have overlooked the two most fundamental lessons from Jesus - love your neighbour as yourself and don't judge others.

wellhelloitsme · 01/09/2022 16:26

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 16:22

I don't see DaisyJoy as having a victim complex, that's your perspective. The WBC have overlooked the two most fundamental lessons from Jesus - love your neighbour as yourself and don't judge others.

@DaisyJoy1 was very judgemental of others though in that she made it clear she pities people who don't share her POV.

She also said that people without faith cannot know peace and happiness, which is incredibly judgemental.

She also said that people without faith try to fill a god shaped hole with other things, when atheists by definition aren't trying to fill a god shaped hole as they don't believe in god.

Even if you think she didn't mean to be judgemental or doesn't see herself as such, surely you can see that she has come across as being so on this thread?

pointythings · 01/09/2022 16:28

@Vincitveritas , DaisyJoy scores 50% on your WBC index - she has most certainly judged atheists. She sees us as lesser than Christians and says we fill the god-shaped hole in our lives with, amongst other things, drugs and alcohol. If that isn't judgemental, what is? If you can't see how offensive those posts are to non-believers, how arrogant, how patronising, then maybe a lesson in empathy is needed.

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 16:31

I can't speak for DaisyJoy of course, but I think she meant well and wasn't implying Christians are better than everyone else (because we most certainly are not).

wellhelloitsme · 01/09/2022 16:34

Vincitveritas · 01/09/2022 16:31

I can't speak for DaisyJoy of course, but I think she meant well and wasn't implying Christians are better than everyone else (because we most certainly are not).

Not asking you to speak for someone else, of course.

But shocked you can't see that her posts are full of judgement for atheists, even if you think she 'means well'?

orbitalcrisis · 01/09/2022 16:38

I don't need a higher power to find meaning in things. The science behind reality is fascinating and of course, meaningful!

The idea of living forever sounds excruciating! The boredom! The idea that dead relatives are watching me every time I fart, scratch my arse or masturbate! No thanks! And when I die I have to spend eternity watching first my children and grandchildren, then their descendants! People I will never actually meet but assume I will become invested in as they are my offspring's offspring's offspring, etc. I can watch them make mistakes but do nothing to stop them, cannot offer them advice or a hug, I just have to sit back and watch the disaster unfold.... Sounds like absolute hell.

No, when I die I take great comfort in the fact that all my worries and worrying will be over. I will embrace the nothingness with relief!