Patriarchy Tax

[fromafixity]

DH and I have just changed banks, rejigged our accounts and rebudgeted.

We're an 'all money is shared money' household and historically have had all shared accounts. For the first time now we've set up a couple of individual accounts for our 'fun' money.

We were chatting about how much fun money we wanted to budget for, and we agreed I'd get slightly more (20%) because of some of the costs associated with performing 'woman' in a socially acceptable way. He's named the regular money transfer 'patriarchy tax', hence the thread name.

His fun money will mainly cover meeting friends at the pub / coffee shop / doing sport etc. Mine will cover the same, and also hair products, saving up for an occasional haircut, nail polish, skin care, makeup etc.

If you were budgeting for this, what % do you think would be reasonable? What are the extras that you wouldn't be buying / there would be no real equivalent for if you were a man?

I don’t wear makeup or nail polish. I use basic moisturiser but I do visit the hairdresser
regularly. We only have one shared
pot of money. Sorry I’m no help!

Sanpro? Nail polish is neither here nor there, surely, and you both have hair. Make-up can be a few pounds or hundreds, depends how high maintenance you are!

0% because “performing woman” is choosing to conform to patriarchy gender expectations and I am a disobedient woman.

Thanks for the replies! I don't count sanpro as I have a mooncup but that's a good one.

Nail polish isn't particularly expensive, but then our budget isn't big!

He pays a barber a tenner every few months to clip his hair, that's a lot less than what mine costs.

I sort of love the idea of refusing to perform woman, and there are a lot of ways I think I am 'disobedient' in that respect. But I also need to be realistic about, for example, the professional impact of cutting off all my hair or stopping using products on it, or not wearing makeup.

I'm curious and envious of women who can confidently say they aren't disadvantaged by opting out of all the norms of stereotypical female expression. I encounter a lot on MN but to my knowledge haven't ever met one in real life.

To be honest I think you are tying yourself up in knots here. If make up and nail polish are important to you then use them. If not, don’t. Unless you work in a profession that requires a certain appearance - like maybe cabin crew - I don’t think it’s the big deal you think it is.
I don’t wear make up but that isn’t a political act; I can’t be bothered, don’t have the time or inclination and very rarely notice anyone looking better after application to be honest.
Decide what is important to you and work around that, would be my advice.

Surely his tax should be annually reviewed to reflect the current gender pay gap

There's a fair body of research suggesting that makeup enhances a woman's career prospects / earning potential, and not just for cabin crew. A quick Google found this link but a more thorough searcwww.indy100.com/viral/women-wear-makeup-work-office-paid-more-money-8386616

I don't feel tied up in knots but it's interesting to me that it comes across that way. I've actually found it quite liberating to do the explicit budgeting for this stuff, because in the past I've tended to feel a bit guilty about spending our shared money on things that he doesn't have an equivalent for.

This got me ++ excited about the formula I could write for our spreadsheet. 😅

metro.co.uk/2018/07/28/pink-tax-women-are-still-paying-up-to-34-more-for-toiletries-because-of-their-gender-7770225/amp/

i think this report closed things a bit. But I still notice it

It’s a ludicrous idea. If you want to spend more on how you look then that’s fine, but it’s your choice.

I (used to) spend much more on work clothes than DH because it's acceptable for him to wear the same suit / trousers / shoes for months on end but it isn't for women. Definitely a candidate for patriarchy tax. Also a cocktail or glass of fizz is at least 50% more than a pint.

We've managed our money like this for

I don’t do my nails.

I wear minimal make up and only for a few hours a week when I’m TV or camera-facing at work. A £5 bottle of foundation lasts a year. I last bought powder (also £5 ish) in January 2021.

Haircut - £50/60 a year total.

Pads work out at £3 every two months.

A bottle of perfume lasts a year.

Bottles of face wash and micellar water last 6 months each. I buy cheap brands so it’s not more expensive than buying soap or fairy washing up liquid.

I personally wouldn’t have the need for this ‘patriarchy tax’, no. I’ve made sure I’m damn good at my job and have never had a single comment about my lack of make up, nail polish or regular hairdresser visits.

Oh come on, you're being ridiculous now.

Of course you can wear the same clothes every day (or a small limited selection like a couple of suits/shoes and new top every day). Why wouldn't it be?

Plus it's entirely your choice that you want a more expensive drink. Unless you live in a small town in the 1950s, no-one bats an eyelid if women drink pints in pubs.

All these 'requirements' are completely in your own heads and there are plenty of women who get on perfectly well in life without following them.

I’m thinking now of the “more male” things that DH does which cost more for him than for me.

Cars would be the biggest one, he drives two stereotypically male cars, a McLaren and a Range Rover, while I have a Smart, so that’s quite a chunk of money difference there.

He wears tailored suits for work, which again cost more than my clothes, and a smaller but still significant difference is that he weighs 50% more than me, so eats and drinks about 50% more.

I don’t think that my make-up and champagne costs come close to tipping the balance back the other way.

If you're looking at specifically woman costs, you can only judge for yourself based on what it important to you.

It costs more to dress a woman due to bras (I replace 1 or 2 a year) and sanpro (I replace a couple of reusable pads or pants a year) so we allow that in the clothing budget. The rest depends (for both of us) entirely on how and where you shop, the type of clothes you need and the amount you prefer.

Me: 2x £50 hair cuts a year (would prefer it to be 3)
Him: 6x £10 barber visits.
So I can see that we should adjust allowances there.

I spend more on prescriptions because of HRT which is factored into our medical category in the budget.

What makes me who I am and therefore cost more or less is otherwise not to do with gender. Woman does not mean make-up any more than man means none. I'm mildly disturbed by that connection being made.

OP it’s an entirely reasonable idea - but many women on mumsnet are very keen to fall over themselves about how they are way too cool to be oppressed by patriarchy.

i predict this thread does not go well.

@Gentleness it should not be. But it is.

Sorry, pressed send by accident earlier.

So we have used this system for 35 years. We agreed from the outset to always have equal amounts, which have varied a lot depending on our financial circumstances. In the early days it was £20 per month, now it's a few hundred.

I always spend mine, partly patriarchy tax reasons (love that phrase), partly because I give a good chunk away to my church (DH not a Christian) and partly because I like to spend my pocket money. But DH is not a spender and has built up some quite significant savings from his. But that's OK, because I generally manage to tap him up for a round in the pub and he buys me very generous gifts - I'm studying for a degree at the moment and he's paying my fees.

In reality, it's a useful fiction that has helped us establish boundaries for discretionary spend without causing arguments or resentment. It really helped when we were proper skint years ago, as we both had a safety valve to allow small treats. Every couple has to figure out what works for them.

Ps in my rules SanPro is a household necessity, not a pocket money item.

You think people judge if you don't groom to a much higher standard than men and wear a wide variety of clothes ?

You sound like you would like not to have to conform so much but worry about how you would be perceived?

Just do it.

Either - you will see no impact
Or - you are in a very sexist workplace and you will start to realise that even by conforming you will have suffered the female penalty

I can't imagine workplace where conforming to a set woman image will overcome all possible other assumptions and judgment that sexist people make

I spend less on hair than a lot of men (short cut go to barbers every 3 months or so)
I don't wear make up apart from v special occasions
Nail Polish costs less than a latte which I don't drink
I don't go to the pub often (less than once a month)
It's all swings and roundabouts. It costs more for men to buy decent suits. Beats trimming? I don't know I'm single, but seems a weird thing to do at all in my opinion!

This is one of the most ridiculous and depressing things I’ve read on here. Sure, some men might judge women who don’t conform to societal stereotypes but why bother caring about that? I’m not sure why you’re being so snide about women who opt out of doing that @Onandupw, it doesn’t mean the patriarchy is any less oppressive, but I’m not sure why a woman choosing not to conform to these expectations would attract contempt rather than encouragement.

personally, I don’t shave any body hair, I cut and dye my own hair (and have had a buzz cut in the past) wear makeup about once a year for an event or something. Are men judging me? Some are I’m sure. But I’m not going to waste my life caring about that or living according to what men want or expect from me. I certainly don’t feel disadvantaged in my career either but I don’t work somewhere with antiquated sexist expectations.

Surely it would be easier to stick with the "one pot of money that everything comes out of" scenario?

But I also don't "do woman" all that well. I have my hair highlighted not often enough a few times a year, and I wear foundation. No sanpro as too old.

But then, DH and I rarely have nights out without each other - bar the occasional work thing which we both try to avoid. All our friends are friends of both of us.

It's nothing to do with being cool. It's just never feeling the need to be a 'performing woman' as the OP puts it.

Fine if you like putting make up on, having expensive hair cuts, wearing lots of different clothes or choosing more expensive drinks when out, or all the other examples, but it's exactly that, a choice.

Just like the PP who mentions that the man 'has' to have a bigger more expensive car and designer suits. No-one would accept a man saying he needs a larger share of the family budget because he needs a flash man car, or expensive suits so why would it be the other way?

Bras and sanitary protection yes, just about everything else, no.

just want to add that there is nothing wrong with wearing makeup, getting nails done, dressing stereotypically feminine etc, if you’re doing it for YOU and it makes you feel good. If you’re doing it expressly because the patriarchy demands it, and you acknowledge that and would rather not bother but keep doing it anyway, just…don’t?