Patriarchy Tax

[fromafixity]

DH and I have just changed banks, rejigged our accounts and rebudgeted.

We're an 'all money is shared money' household and historically have had all shared accounts. For the first time now we've set up a couple of individual accounts for our 'fun' money.

We were chatting about how much fun money we wanted to budget for, and we agreed I'd get slightly more (20%) because of some of the costs associated with performing 'woman' in a socially acceptable way. He's named the regular money transfer 'patriarchy tax', hence the thread name.

His fun money will mainly cover meeting friends at the pub / coffee shop / doing sport etc. Mine will cover the same, and also hair products, saving up for an occasional haircut, nail polish, skin care, makeup etc.

If you were budgeting for this, what % do you think would be reasonable? What are the extras that you wouldn't be buying / there would be no real equivalent for if you were a man?

To be clear (it’s my DH with the cars) he’d never dream of suggesting that he takes a larger share of our budget for his choices. He likes his cars (and bikes) and so buys them with his own money.

I’d be fine with them coming out of the joint account, but he prefers it this way.

Which bit?

I'm in a Director role in a global large organisation so fairly senior.

I haven't worn make up since Xmas party 2019 and I get my hair cut 2 or 3 times a year.

It really isn't necessary to spend loads or 'perform femininity' to be successful.

@Gentleness oh sorry - I meant there shouldn’t be a correlation between the gender standards applied to women and cost but there is. It’s current reality.

the most obvious one is hair cuts. Worms hair cuts are more expensive. For sure women can choose to have shorter “male” hair cuts and pay less. But it’s obtuse to say then that individual women are individually making a choice to buy into thst and are therefore liable for any costs.

it’s a fallacy of individual power in a patriarchal system.

but sorry - didn’t mean to really single you out!

See - all these posts are about individuals making choices. And fair do to them. But that just ignores the reality do structural and social pressures. It’s blaming women and saying that they individually should bear the cost of patriarchy. It’s much more complex than just opting out. Thanks

What is the purpose of setting this up, if the old system has been working fine? Are you really going to do " I bought coffee last time, it's your turn?"

Toiletries, make up, sanpro would come out if the joint "groceries" money here.

It's clothes that are the real inequality IMO. Dh has one good quality hiking jacket, by a reasonably trendy brand and that's all he really needs for any occasion. I need a decent hiking jacket, but I wouldn't wear it for e.g. a smart casual social thing or to work.

I think this is a brilliant idea.

Make up, nails, hair etc are all a choice, but they are not a choice made in a vacuum. I make my choice to wear make up because it makes me feel good. It makes me feel good because I think I look better and I get a different response from people. This response and feeling is because of the patriarchal society that we all live in.

I don’t do my hair and make up if I’m alone at home all day. I would if it was purely ‘for me’. It’s ‘for me’ inasmuch as it makes my life slightly better in our patriarchal society.

One of my biggest bugbears though is that all the performing femininity stuff has been sold back to us as ‘relaxation’ and ‘me time’ 😂 sitting in a chair for three hours with bleach on my head is not how I choose to relax!

It's threads like this that makes me think I must be a man. Or I'm generally baffled about all these rules I'm apparently breaking about what clothes to wear when and all the rest of it.

I wear my Mumsnet approved Didriksons coat pretty much every time I leave the house in winter and when my boss saw me in it at work, she said how much she liked it.

No because women are judged more on their appearance than men so it's not purely a personal choice.

However, men need to eat and drink more so I think that equals things out.
I remember a male colleague saying he spend £100 on a night out. At the time I could do a night out with three drinks from a cheap pub for under £10, make it £15 for some cheesy garlic bread thrown in. (He was also much younger and used to going out more).

There's a book that a few of you need to read Women don't owe you pretty by Florence Given.

'

@Usernamenotavailabletryanother You have put that so well!!

indeed I don’t wear make up at home. And i definitely get a different response in general when I’m out and about if I do.

would that it were not so. But I be so. And I’ve been steeped in that for many decades now.

I actually can see myself as I get older giving less
fucks. But then again I may not - maybe ill
like being more invisible maybe I wont.

but it’s naive in the extreme to think that individual women make all these choices in a vacuum

Of course power structures exist and women have been aggressively sold the idea of beauty standards created for the male gaze for the best part of the last century. I don’t think anyone would deny that. Some people will feel the pressure more acutely than others and find it harder to push back against for many reasons (their upbringing, culture, personality etc) but there is an element of individual choice as well - not made in a vacuum, but choice nonetheless.

everything that challenges and pushes back against patriarchal expectations started with an individual. How can things change unless more individuals keep making these choices, therefore making it easier for those who don’t feel as able to?

We just have the same discretional spend… equality and all that. If I want my nails done, then I don’t also buy a new dress that month as I’ve already spent my £30 “grooming” spend.

Yes, I buy make up and cosmetics that my husband doesn’t, but he also buys moisturiser and drinks at home when I don’t. We just choose to prioritise our spends differently, I don’t get more because I want to preen, £1 is still £1.

Our finances are totally separate including property in our own names. My salary goes into my bank account and I'll spend it as I wish without reference or discussion with anybody else. Bills are shared between us.

I value my privacy and financial independence keenly.

To be honest I’d be more concerned your DH is withholding enough personal money to buy himself a Range Rover and a mclaren! Large sums are definitely shared in our house (including bonuses) so we can decide as a family what to spend them on. I’d go bloody nuclear if DH bought an expensive car himself whilst I was driving round in a smart car.

OP to answer your question I get an extra £200 a month on top of our personal spends of £500. This covers regular haircuts/highlights, manicures/pedicures, eyebrows, LVL lashes plus some Botox and any makeup I want. Sanpro/toiletries come out of the joint grocery shop.

This is mumsnet where it’s socially unacceptable to indulge in any form of beautification and I’ll no doubt get slammed for this, but my husband definitely enjoys me being well kept and also makes the effort to look after himself. This is the case for almost all the couples I know, although not sure how they manage their finances!

I used to swan into the office in floaty tea-dresses, looking, I thought, every bit elegant enough Until the day my boss complained that it would not do to dress like that for the stuff he wanted me to do. I looked at him in his 20+ year old faded black suit, with its shiny, oh so shiny, trouser rear. Best Paddington Bear stare, what a hypocrite. Anyway, one long lunch break later, I was equipped with a suit that Margaret Thatcher would have been proud of. I hung it up for all to admire, and was amused to watch the chagrin on his face as he walked by!

I don't wear makeup or heels, my eyebrows are as they came, don't have my nails done. Haircut maybe once every 3m normal cut and blow dry. Buy clothes from time to time. There's lots of us about!

But we have no idea on their financial situation, maybe they divide the money equally and her DH saved for a reasonable amount ( whilst they are earning quite well) why should he suddenly lose the money because he saved the money and she decided to spend it?

But I also need to be realistic about, for example, the professional impact of cutting off all my hair or stopping using products on it, or not wearing makeup.

Its ok to be a closet feminist while other women are the ones sticking their necks out by refusing to “perform woman”. That’s ok, if you don’t have the confidence for feminist civil disobedience you don’t have it.

for myself my costs are
Hair: £15 every other year for a dry trim as my hair is long. I used to go 2x a year but the pandemic made me realise I can go alot longer. Long hair is actually cheaper than short hair and you don’t need products to put it in a nice braid or bun. DH is £15 every 6 weeks due to short hair. £0 on products as only use shampoo/conditioner which DH uses as well.

Makeup: £0 don’t wear any at all ever. Haven’t done since I was 24 and started my professional career.

Nails: £0 genuinely think natural looks best and polish destroys natural nails.

Also £0 on eyelashes, eyebrows, fake tan, hair removal (we both shave his razors and shave gel are actually more expensive than mine)

£5 every two months on skin care routine as only use aloe Vera gel as my face moisturiser. DH and I use same face soap and sun cream.

So really there are 0% extra costs. I don’t think I’ve been disadvantaged but my career was in a male dominated field where not performing woman was not a detriment professionally.

What do you mean by withholding? We both earn similar amounts, and put equal amounts into the joint account. We then each have our own money to spend on what we want.

If I wanted an exotic sports car I’d buy one myself, or drive his.

I could give you a run down on my personal appearance and professional standing but I believe it's your choice and it's not important.
We have a joint account all money goes in there (including a very uneven distribution of salary: one of us earns 3x the other)

Then we have fun accounts for fun.
But it's just that, fun.

I do not count a haircut or period as fun. Dh's work suits are not fun. For other stuff we discuss if it's fun or not. Nicotine patches to give up smoking weren't fine. Neither is a weight loss class.

But having the same amount of fun means if your haircut changes price or whatever you don't need to adjust your fun budget.

Never heard such rubbish

That's kinda funny OP, and actually sadly makes me realise what an arse my ex was....

But to all of those in here who talk about not wearing makeup, we'll good for you, but you don't get to denigrate me because I choose to wear it. My skin looks worse than a male's of equivalent age, probably the testosterone... who knows. I don't wear a lot but that's neither here nor there, it does not make me a "closet feminist" who lets others stick their necks out, civil disobedience...FFS....

Go to a wedding, and you need a different dress to the last 5 weddings you've gone to (if same friends), guys only need a new tie, maybe a new shirt. Same with any other formal function. It very quickly adds up.

You don't need a new dress for each wedding

You feel you must have a new dress

Your choice at the end of the day to continue playing the game

Go to a wedding, and you need a different dress to the last 5 weddings you've gone to (if same friends), guys only need a new tie, maybe a new shirt. Same with any other formal function. It very quickly adds up

Of course you don't need a different dress for different weddings/formal functions. You may choose to buy a new outfit but you don't have to wear something different to last time.

Trust me, nothing at all bad happens if you wear a dress twice, or even a dozen times, even if someone remembers, which they usually don't.