Learning native languages should be compulsory in the U.K

[RainCloud]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/25/why-i-quit-gaelic-language-forefathers-vocabulary?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

I saw this article earlier and it made me sad that the number Scottish Gaelic speakers are declining. I think it should be compulsory for us all to learn Scottish Gaelic and Welsh at school, all over the U.K. I'm not saying that we should all be fluent but we should learn the basics. It might inspire more people to become fluent and stop the languages dying out.

It's worth teaching in schools where the language is likely to be spoken, although even then it will be in one ear and out the other for the majority (my experience of learning Irish for my entire school career). Totally pointless elsewhere.

Latin would be better. In spite of its reputation as being a language only taught to the elite, studies have proven it improves English literacy skills as well as increasing vocabulary knowledge. It forms the basis of several modern languages as well.

Teaching the history of the UK, including that of the different countries within it and the fact that different areas has different languages and cultures etc is something I agree with. I don’t think that should extend so far as teaching all of the languages though, for a start there are unlikely to be enough teachers who have a good enough grasp of the language (including accent and pronunciation considering there are lots of sounds used in Celtic languages not used in English) and I don’t think teaching kids in London a few words in Welsh, for example, will stop it dying out.

To stop languages dying out the focus needs to be on the areas where the language still exists and is still used. Yes, in areas where a language is part of the cultural history and where there are still some native speakers I agree with teaching it in schools. But I think supporting a language not to die out goes beyond teaching it as a second language. It’s about ensuring that the language is used in things like television programmes, literature, newspapers and magazines, translations of government documents, road signs etc. If a language isn’t useful and something that can be practised in day to day life almost nobody is going to see a value in learning or speaking it.

Wales have really focused on keeping the Welsh language alive in recent decades, it’s compulsorary to learn in all schools, all road signs must have Welsh alongside English, publications from services such as the NHS must be available in Welsh as well as English. When I was in school in the 90s almost all schools in my local area were English medium but now the majority of primary schools at least are Welsh medium. There also seems to be a revival of giving children Welsh names, again when I was in school only the children from families where Welsh was the first language tended to have Welsh names but now they seem more popular among English speaking Welsh people too. When my generation was at school Welsh language speaking was really promoted and I think this has seen the value of the language improve and the percentage of people in Wales who can speak Welsh has mostly been increasing over the last couple of decades. Promoting a language in the area where it has cultural significance works but I’m not sure that trying to revive languages in parts of the UK they’ve no historical significance would be very effective.

It would be nice if all UK school children had an appreciation of different languages, in the same way they are taught to have an appreciation of different religions and cultures, but the resources required to give all UK children a level of fluency in all of the UK's languages that would actually help preserve them would be enormous.

There also aren't enough people who actually speak Welsh to a level where they can teach in Welsh or teach Welsh language to meet demand in schools and public bodies just in Wales. This is currently a significant barrier to the Welsh Government's strategy to increase bilingualism in the classroom. I imagine it would be even more difficult to find enough people to teach other languages.

The Welsh Government have intoduced a requirement that new appointees to Welsh Government civil service roles should be able to speak 'courtesy-level basic Welsh' or commit to learning Welsh to that standard within an agreed time period after starting the job. They hope to expand this requirement to other roles in the future as part of the Cymraeg 2050 strategy to increase the number of Welsh speakers and promote biligualism.

'Courtesy-level basic Welsh' is a very low standard, basically being able to say good morning and good afternoon, know and correctly pronounce a few other simple words and expressions and read simple information with the help of technology. A person who only spoke Welsh to this level wouldn't really be considered 'able to speak Welsh'.

I’m welsh and despite it very much being part of the curriculum I won’t be encouraging my children to pursue it as they get older. As others have mentioned, it’s better to learn something that will be of real benefit to them and others such as BSL or languages that are spoken throughout the world such as Spanish. I do have sympathy that the Welsh language is in decline but you can’t force it on people. Plus I think it sounds dreadful compared to French or Italian but that’s just my personal observation.

@midgetastic , English hasn’t evolved from Latin - the basics are from Anglo-Saxon roots, with some Old Norse thrown in - but with a lot of vocabulary from Latin roots, either directly or via Norman French.

It’s notable (so I’ve read) that Churchill’s famous ‘We shall fight them on the beaches’ speech, contained only one word of non-Anglo-Saxon origin, and that was ‘surrender’ which was from Norman French, i.e. Latin roots.

Gaelic medium education is available all over Scotland, there are a couple of primary schools and a secondary school offering it here in Edinburgh. Where it was never spoken.

My friends up north are educating in GM but there is a shortage of teachers able to teach their specialist subjects at secondary level, which means their DCs have been massively restricted in their higher choices.

Doric (which isn’t a language but a dialect) is definitely being encouraged in NE Scotland (Peterhead/Fraserburgh area) . Friends’ kids are having entire lessons taught in Doric and encouraged to use it in writing . It’s important that it’s used and celebrated, it’s so heavily tied into the fishing heritage especially . I love hearing it spoken and desperately miss it when away from home .

I left school in the NE in 2009 and we were punished back then for using it other than in the playground; told it was slang and coarse - seems ridiculous looking back . Vividly remember classmate talking about ‘yon wifie fa works in i canteen’ and being ripped to pieces by maths teacher (who herself had a distinct Aberdonian twang!) for using wifie as opposed to lady . Remember being told we’d never get employed with an accent like that . My grandfather was told the same in Stoke though in 1945, so maybe it’s more accenteeism/classicism as opposed to something against any one particular dialect !

Everyone should have the option to opt in to learning additional languages.

For pupils who are struggling with basic literacy and numeracy their focus should be on that.

But for the majority if they want to learn other languages whether Gaelic or others they should be supported to do this.

This right is enshrined in the Gaelic Language Act (brought in by labour, not the SNP). For councils who don't have Gaelic provision they have to provide (free) transport to schools in other local authority areas who do.

There is more demand for GME (Gaelic medium education) than supply. This is partly due to the lack of teachers, partly from its history of being banned.

If more funding is put into teacher training for potential Gaelic teachers every family who wants GME could access it locally.

In English medium schools it's going to do no harm to learn a little of the culture/ history/ language of wider Scotland (including Scots and Doric).

It doesn't have to be only taught in school though. If you are sad about it, you can do something about it yourself. You can learn it yourself, or learn it together with your children.
I believe Duolingo has both Scottish Gaelic and Welsh on the list of languages.

This thread is inspiring me to have a go at Welsh - not that I’m Welsh, but I love the sound of it, and it was probably the language of some of my more remote forebears. (Sp?)

I agree OP. It’s really important that children learn something about languages as part of the history and culture of the UK.

I love the idea of pupils in English schools doing their Gaelic homework! Wish I’d had that at school. Or Welsh. It’s embarrassing going on holiday to Wales and not knowing how to pronounce the place names or say hello in Welsh.

Scottish Gaelic was not spoken in large parts of Scotland. It is not the native language for many Scots.
Unless we are adopting a romanticisation of Scottish history to create a vision of the past that never existed.

You can get a job in Wales without speaking the language if it's senior enough. Lower down perhaps not.

Well that's a poor excuse with all the online lessons available

The universities were disparaging of Welsh qualifications twenty years ago in England we found. No idea what they think of the Welsh baccalaureate these days

Maybe, but I’ve found I don’t pick up languages nearly as easily now I’m older. Used to be reasonably quick in my youth.

Sorry, that was a reply to justasking111

I think it would be good for all children in the UK to know about the native languages and learn a few phrases. I am familiar with Welsh and can pronounce and understand it at a basic level I feel happy to have a connection to the history of my country where I live

A form of Welsh was spoken in Scotland and a different form of Gaelic was spoken in the part of Scotland I’m from (before it died out).

Gaelic writing on police cars and ambulances etc winds me up every time I see it.

Everywhere else in the UK, a foreign language such as French / German / Spanish should be compulsory all throughout school. The UK is one of the very few countries that doesn’t have an MFL as a compulsory subject. Ideally you start teaching MFLs in primary schools. But for this you’d need a government that actually cares about the kids’ education

Exactly. And one that wasn't so fixated on closing off EU immigration that it therefore deprived us of even more MFL teachers.

We did use to have MFL in primary schools but the level reached was laughably low. And a MFL GCSE was compulsory.

Ideally you start teaching MFLs in primary schools.

Ideally you start teaching MFLs in kindergarten. And not by the usual ditchwater-dull classroom methods either. (Obviously accommodations and exceptions would need to be made for those with hearing impairment or ND conditions such as dyslexia and autism).

But as you say, that would demand actual, qualified, properly remunerated teachers as opposed to the minimum wage slavery which is the norm in child care. Where’s the nearest unicorn?

I'm Scottish but my part of Scotland never spoke garlic and my ancestry all came from non gaelic speaking areas.

Why should I learn gaelic or Welsh?

Gaelic not garlic 🧄

But why should my children have their education compromised to save a language that is foreign to them, useless, and that they have no interest in?