Learning native languages should be compulsory in the U.K

[RainCloud]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/25/why-i-quit-gaelic-language-forefathers-vocabulary?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

I saw this article earlier and it made me sad that the number Scottish Gaelic speakers are declining. I think it should be compulsory for us all to learn Scottish Gaelic and Welsh at school, all over the U.K. I'm not saying that we should all be fluent but we should learn the basics. It might inspire more people to become fluent and stop the languages dying out.

If the UK was even remotely a union of four nations, rather than the remnants of English Empire, we'd all be multilingual.

English on Mondays, Welsh on Tuesdays, Irish Gaelic on Wednesdays, Scots and Ulster Scots on Thursdays, Scottish Gaelic on Fridays, and on the weekends, French, Arabic, Polish, Urdu, Spanish, Swahili and the myriad other languages spoken by Scots, Welsh, Irish and English people.

But Gods forbid some 60 million people in England should have to bestir themselves to do anything other than dictate to us, force themselves on us, eradicate us.

No, Gaelic was the dominant language in Scotland in 11th to 13th century Scotland. Scots replaces Gaelic in many areas but it took a long time.
That map is, I presume, recent census data. If you had a similar map from around 1900 it would look quite different.

If you teach languages, but they aren’t used, they are quickly forgotten.

I did a Makaton course some years ago through work but the child prompting the training left our school and it never got used. I can remember very little Makaton now.

Same in Edinburgh although many of those using the garlic school do so as it feeds in to one of the top highs and/ or because it's better than their local catchment primary which might have a lot of deprived students. It's an incredibly middle class hipster place and I think every child I've ever met that goes there has a well spoken English accent. Yes I guess primaries in Scotland could give a nod to gaelic as they do Spanish and French which is taught by the regular class teacher who may not have any previous knowledge of any of those languages but your suggestion of all over the Uk is a bit bizarre. I'd be annoyed if my Scottish dc we're wasting curriculum time learning Welsh. Tbh I'd say many Scots are already basically bilingual. I can switch from local accent and dialect which someone speaking RP would struggle to understand to English with a hint of a Scottish accent effortlessly. I'm not sure I'd have had any benefit from learning Gaelic and those who wish to can always pursue it

Although it's a nice idea from a history and culture point of view, I really think schools should be focussing on helping pupils learn English better first! Reading posts from recruiters commenting on about how poor it is amongst many job applicants suggests it's a problem

Also this. Strange to think it should be forced in to Scottish areas where it was never ever spoken in the first place.

I also don't see the point in languages being scattered over the UK.

Plus it would never work. I'm not fluent in Welsh but I taught my young dc to sing Welsh nursery rhymes and speak the basics before school. Easy peasy because I can pronounce the words. You don't need to be fluent but you do need a decent level of familiarity with the language.

I've heared enough English people butcher the pronunciation of very basic Welsh words (my DH included) to be pretty certain it would never work in a non Welsh primary!

I'm a Scottish teacher and feel really strongly about this. Gaelic should not be a compulsory part of education. It's become more relevant with the rise of the SNP and that makes me uncomfortable - education should never be politicised. Gaelic is a dead language and wasting time teaching our children to speak basic sentences in this language takes time away from teaching them a useful language like BSL, French, mandarin etc.

In Scotland we are supposed to be embracing a 1+2 MFL system where children begin learning a different language in P1, carrying this through their primary education and adding a second in P5. So many schools are doing Gaelic as one of these languages and I really don't understand the benefit - surely a basic comprehension of two current international languages (perhaps even ones that complement each other like French and Spanish, where the similar Latin roots can help you pick some of the second one up) is helping our children be prepared for life beyond school. I believe it is certainly more useful than a vague knowledge of a language that 99% of them will ever have cause to use.

Gaelic is not a dead language. There were around 87000 people who could speak/read/write Gaelic in 2011! That is not dead.

Why does the whole.of the UK need to learn pointless languages that nobody needs? I'm English and I can communicate perfectly with Scots, Irish and Welsh folk because they also speak English.
Learning European languages and some Middle Eastern languages wod be far more useful these days

language is a tool. It will be used while there is a use for it and when there isn't it will vanish. A better idea for preserving language than insisting on teaching it would be to document it both in written and spoken (recorded) forms. I would suggest that where a language is required to be taught, then its more for political than ethnic reasons.

Scottish Gaelic was brought to Scotland by Irish settlers, and was never a majority language in Scotland.

Why is it any more 'native' than English?

Almost worth it for the frothing at the mouth from some English folk on here when their dc bring home their Gaelic homework

The Autonomous Community of the Basque Country in Spain has something like this in place, OP, although it's not quite compulsory.
It's not really saving the languages from dying out, because the influence of Spanish is everywhere, even on children who speak Basque at home and go to a private school where lessons are given in the Basque language.
Even their grandparents' Basque is heavily influenced by Spanish, and people can be very dismissive of the Basque that is taught in schools and less influenced by Spanish, because that's not the Basque that they know.
Then there's the resentment caused by the advantage that you have in, for example, the public health service, if you've passed the state language exam. People who are better qualified in the actual job are at a disadvantage if they don't speak the official version of Basque well enough to pass the language exam. In theory, that's because Basque -speaking members of the public have the right to be attended to in their native language. But in reality there are very few people left who aren't equally good at Spanish and Basque.
I can see what a tragedy it is, and it's worse in places like Australia, where the colonizers could have learned a lot from the concepts expressed in the local languages. But one of the sign languages would do just as much to teach children that there are alternative systems of communication, with more opportunity to practise.

That was rather my point. If we're looking at making historic British languages compulsory, then we shouldn't be selective. But I think it is nuts. I do have friends who studied old English at uni though😂.

And given I'm born, bred and living in england, I have learned some Welsh because my job takes me into Welsh medium schools. These languages are very accessible to people who want to leatn them. Apps like Duolingo are good. Also dysgy cymraeg offers online or f2f welsh classes for £45 a year - 3hrs a week with a tutor and the opportunity to sit exams.

Latin didn't die out - it evolved. A huge number of the words we use in English are derived from Latin, ditto French, Spanish, Italian and other European languages.

The Gaelic language was not dying out, it was murdered. Children were banned from speaking Gaelic in school in the mid 1700s, not just banned but punished for it.

It is a hugely important part of Scotland's culture and history. There is massive learning of how language works by learning Gaelic, concepts such as slenderisation and lenition. It is very very popular as a language to learn on Duolingo.

I would support it being taught in Scottish schools, as others have said it WAS widely spoken across Scotland until determined efforts were made to stamp it out.

The Scottish diaspora also took it with them with a large number of Gaelic speakers still speaking it in places such as Nova Scotia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HistoryoffScottishGaelic

Whilst I think we should look to protect the languages we have in the British isles, I don’t think compulsory language lessons are really what we need for it. In Ireland and Wales and event regionally in Cornwall/Scotland where there are active speakers I support it but not say someone in Derby learning Scots Gaelic.

we need to give our children better foreign language learning skills early on, which we fail to do so but it would be better spend learning French, Spanish or German in a more immersive way then we do at the moment

I'm surprised it's not compulsory in Scottish schools. I didn't enjoy learning Irish in school as the level expected was too high but if they'd lowered the expectations and didn't make it a prerequisite for any further studies, it would have been fun. Now, I'm glad I learned it and the irony is I can probably understand more Scots gaelic than a Scottish person who has never learnt gaelic. I heard two muslim boys talking gaelic, (a third language for them) on bbc and was amazed both by them and that I could understand them.

I agree OP although if your view is that schools exist solely to prepare children for work then you won’t be happy with that suggestion. Sometimes fostering a love of learning is good and it doesn’t always have to be about promotions at work. School got me interested in history but it doesn’t serve me at work. Learning about the culture of your country such as its language can be positive.

It's interesting reading the comments. I wouldn't expect English people to care that their children aren't being taught Gaelic but from a Scottish POV, I think that a separate language is something that makes differences less ''unfathomable'' to the English.

The English do have a tendency (not all, so many are very open minded and completely get it) but there is that train of thought that any desire to set yourself apart from The English Way is just pure awkwardness. Any reference to another culture is 'chav'. Any preference to be identified as a separate culture is borderline terrorism. So holding on the language does underline the reasons for valuing a separate identity. I can't speak on behalf of scots, or even all Irish people but I feel like holding on the language makes it clearer that we are not a watered down version of England, trying and failing to be English. We are something separate. We're not dinosaurs dying out.

My Irish isn't great, but I know that when I was in London it subconsciously helped me understand my identity from the perspective of being something separate and equal, not just a watered down English person who was nearly getting it right most of the time. That is the identity casually projected on to you a lot of the time, by very well meaning friendly accepting people! They would never project that on to a French person.

What a massive waste of time that would be. Ridiculous idea.

Kids should learn some basic first aid though, and driving. What the main laws are. Stuff like that.

Not gaelic 😅😅😅

Support Welsh in schools in Wales, Scots Gaelic in Scotland, and in England that at least one other language until GSCE.

I personally would like to see kids learn about minority languages in the U.K. as part of citizenship including niceties like hello and goodbye but then direct them to online resources if they rather than using school time. I've learnt a bit of Welsh and Gaelic via the bbc iPlayer programmes plus I learnt some Shetland words which are different (they combine with English)

I agree second languages should be compulsory. I think our education system is really lacking and that's a big part. You don't just learn that language when you learn another language, you learn about linguistics and syntax and you learn many transferable skills and form many useful neural pathways. But Welsh or Gaelic? Or Irish? No, I think it should be either Spanish (spoken in the most places in the world) or a business language like German, Mandarin, Japanese.... so that they will be sure to use it and it's relevant. Even Latin would go above those regional languages for me, sorry, and I say that as someone with a Welsh family.