"You don't owe your parents anything"

[climbingqueenie]

I've seen a lot of this sort of thing bandied around on TikTok and other social media and I wondered if it was the norm to think this these days. I'm obviously not talking about abusive parents- my Dad was emotionally abusive and I don't really have anything to do with him as an adult - but just in general, is it really wrong to expect a reciprocal relationship with your adult children? I spend time with my DM and help her out because I love her and she does the same for me. I'd be pretty gutted if my DC grew up and didn't want to see me or didn't consider my feelings or spoke to me rudely. My mum was by no means perfect but what parent is? She had her own traumas and flaws as we all do but essentially her heart is in the right place and she loves us all, and always showed it. So no I don't "owe" her anything but I appreciate her and I like to help her out.

I don't know, I just feel there is a lot of tendency these days to put all the blame for any problems you might have on your parents and it isn't very healthy. Is there anyone who parents in a perfect way that has no damaging effect whatsoever on their children? Surely we are all a little bit dysfunctional and that's just part of being human? To reiterate, I'm not talking about abuse. I just feel there is significant pressure on parents these days to centre their children's emotional wellbeing- as is obviously completely right- but also to display no thoughts or feelings or emotions of your own. I have a friend for example with a teenage DS who speaks to her like dirt - one time after he'd spoken to her particularly badly she cried and he told her to do that was emotionally manipulative.

Is that where we are? Do you have to just allow your children to say what they like to you and have no emotional response?

I'm genuinely interested in this because I know it has many layers of nuance.

Gentle parenting is a bit of an unhelpful name because everyone has a different definition of what it means, some people seem to think it's just about accepting/letting go on absolutely everything which is not usually a very helpful approach. I would probably also say that I do gentle parenting (since I tend to agree with most of what labels itself that) and certainly value/recognise those things, and I'd still let my child know if they upset me with something they said. Thinking about it, I'd be quite concerned about him if he told me to fuck off because it would be so out of character. But presumably that isn't the situation here, and instead it's built up from other things he's said being accepted/taken as normal.

What would I do if I started to hear hurtful things from my teen? It's hard to say with complete conviction because I'm not very far into the teen years, quite possibly have a teen with a different disposition, who knows what will happen when hormones kick in. But in theory, probably not deal with it in the moment because emotions are heightened, he's on the defensive (which is why he's accusing her of being manipulative). Likely have a conversation at a later time explaining that it's hurtful and he should consider the impact of words, if he didn't intend to cause somebody upset. Talk about emotional manipulation, because somebody being reasonably upset is not emotionally manipulative, but insisting that it is is a nice easy way to avoid the consequences of how you are treating that person. Also, possibly separately, look at whatever led to the outburst in the first place, because these kinds of things don't come from nowhere - it's a reaction to having a boundary set or not giving them immediately what they want, or whatever. It's really rare that I unilaterally say this is how it's going to be, it's normally a negotiation/problem solving conversation from the start, because we've been doing that for years. That's the crux and the beauty of gentle parenting for me. We now have a practised well worn process for working out how something can work for both of us and it is very rare that we clash over things as a result. Occasionally we do. In general though he's quite chilled out. I went through hell when he was age 3-5 so maybe I've earned some peace 😁

I can have those conversations with my teen - not in the moment when he's in a huff about something or other - but when he's receptive to it. I'm fully aware that might change as he gets older, more hormonal, starts wanting to do more unreasonable things, starts developing that normal "parents are just out of date and out of touch" perception, none of that has kicked in yet that I can tell, so probably completely different once it has.

Hmm - teens will always rebel and speak badly towards their parents, but that's why you need to instil boundaries from day one, not just expect good manners from a 15yo who's never been raised to know any different.

This is a really excellent post. Thank you.

To give an example of something that came across as rude but I didn't mind him saying to me - but someone else might - I'd been closing his window in the day to prevent his room from getting hot. It turned out that he didn't mind it getting hot, and was more annoyed that he had to get out of bed and open it to get a breeze overnight.

He said something like "Oh yeah, mum, why do you keep closing my window in the day?? My room gets super hot all night and I have to get all the way out of bed and open it. Why can't you just leave it closed?" In a somewhat huffy tone. I was a bit surprised and said I closed it to stop it from getting too hot, and he replied "Well it doesn't get too hot! I don't mind it being hot in the day. It's annoying when it gets hot in the night." I said something else and he probably finished with "I have had it open all day for the last four days and it's been fine. Just stop closing my window." and then disappeared off into his room (didn't slam the door, just left normally).

That was fine to me. I initially felt defensive, like hey, I was doing you a favour. Thought about it later and realised that if he doesn't mind it getting hot, then whatever, doesn't affect me. He probably could have asked me a bit more nicely, but I can understand being exasperated by heat, which is the main reason I let that go.

If he had said "Stop closing my window, bitch! It gets so fucking hot in here at night that I can't even sleep, you moan that I go to bed too late and it's your bloody fault I can't sleep!" and then slammed off into his room, I would not have been OK with that. DH would probably jump in with "Hey, don't speak to your mother like that!" whereas I probably would have waited until he was calmer and then said something like you seemed really angry about that, but I don't appreciate being spoken to that way.

I think that children give back what they've recieved. The behaviour comes from somewhere. If parents have no time for them and don't ever prioitise them then they reflect this back. I find many parents too busy on their mobile phones and don't give full attention to their children performing in sports day/school show/reading.

People seem to be more selfish and don't put their children first. They parent lazily and take the easy option and reward/distract with treats. They lack self awareness. Maybe they are working long hours, are tired, and just don't form a great relationship with their children in the lmited time they do have together. Maybe families aren't as cose any more and no longer bother to help each other out.

I don't know if I totally agree with you, simply because the volume of people I know where there is one selfish and problematic sibling in a group of others who are kind and caring.

And actually vice versa. I know children raised by horrible people who have turned out as lovely, kind people. My own mum is a case in point.

I had wonderful patents, both put their children first and worked hard to give me and my sister's the best they could. Sadly now both passes but really they gave me a wonderful childhood and helped me as an adult too. I have a good relationship with my 3 DC and also FS. Eldest dd lives 150 miles a way from me but rings me about every 10 days and texts too. I see her and DC 3 or 4 times a year and always over Xmas. Eldest DS lives 160 miles away. Comes home for Xmas. Rings about every 2 weeks but texts me several times each week. Youngest son still lives at home. Often goes out to lunch or a breakfast with me. Get along well helping him get his own house next April. FS lives with us for last 10 years. Get along well loved to eat out with us. He will always have a room with us after he is 18, he will stay. I would be gutted if any of them lost touch.

I would have thought that 'you don't owe your parents anything' means that you should be under no obligations to repay them for the sacrifices they made when bringing you up.

Having a reciprocal loving relationship yes, but you shouldn't be beholden to them.

It’s difficult to have a relationship with my Dad, as the only time he gives a crap about me and my DC are when he’s single.

He’s on his fifth marriage and I’ve seen him once since he met her, 4 years ago - and it was horrible. She was openly hostile, jealous and possessive. Mind, the third one was lovely and I barely saw him then, either.

Inbetween 4 and 5, I was 29-33, and he was great. I was hesitant to resume contact initially due to my DCs. I made the mistake of allowing it.

My eldest was 8 at the time and she said “I thought you were an orphan. I didn’t know you had a Dad.” She had no memory of him; but then she wouldn’t, as she was 2 the last time she’d seen him.

It won’t happen again. He’s in his 60s now and as far as I’m concerned, he’s on his own. I don’t give a crap if he gets divorced again, if he becomes unwell, I just don’t have it in me to muster up a fuck to give.

I would rather spend my time with my Grandparents (his parents) who are late 80s, brilliant people and utterly baffled by their son.

For context I’m 37, my mother was his first wife, they divorced when I was 6. I’m NC with my mother because she was/is abusive/an addict.

So it’s a bit shit for me, really. All around I see hands on Grandparents; helping with childcare for work, babysitting of an evening, doing odd jobs around the house, taking their Grandchildren on holiday. DC don’t know any better.

My mum made plenty of mistakes and my childhood was far from ideal. But I am able to view her actions within the context of her life circumstances. She had a hard life in many ways, six kids, a useless husband, and very little money. I also suspect she was depressed a lot of the time. So although I can’t condone a lot of her behaviour towards me, I can understand where it came from. So I decided long ago to cut her a lot of slack. As an adult our relationship became much better, she mellowed enormously in her old age. And I couldn’t fault her in any way as a grandmother. She passed away 3 years ago, I’m so glad I didn’t ever cut her out of my life, and that I made the effort to understand what had gone on.

Re banning something like Tik Tok making it more attractive/desirable. Well that argument can be made about anything, doesn’t mean we should let our kids do whatever they like.
We have talked to ds about why we don’t like Tik Tok or Instagram, and actually he does understand. The main reading he seems to want those things turns out to be because his friends have told him he must!

So ensued an important conversation about peer pressure and not being afraid to be different.

But the "black sheep of the family" trope exists for a reason.

Not all siblings raised together are treated fairly or equally.

I agree, but if for example you refer to the case of my SIL's brother, I really don't think you could attribute all of his abusive behaviour on the fact he may or may not have been the "black sheep". Actually if you speak to my SIL she felt he was the favoured one as a child and that her parents were always afraid of upsetting him.

This is a lovely post, I'm really glad you were able to go some way to mending your relationship.

And equally, being the "golden child" can lead to similar behaviour issues and relationship problems in adulthood.

I'm not saying your SIL's brother is necessarily the way he is because of his parents, but families are complicated and no two people are going to see things in the same way. Some people are abusive due to their upbringing. Some have MH issues or personality disorders. Some are just shitty people.

Depends op. We help our mam. But she quite entitled. No help over the years though. Some families have better bonds/are closer.

Lovely for you.

But as someone who carries both physical and mental scars from my mother, and spent 14-21 actively suicidal, tried numerous times because I just couldn’t see any other way to escape her, if I hadn’t cut her off, I’d be dead, and my children wouldn’t exist.

A clash of personality or having nothing in common isn't abuse, though. I wouldn't maintain a friendship with somebody I didn't get on with, so what's the benefit of doing so with family?

I don't think children owe their parents, and also don't think parents owe their children once they are adults, but most children/parents do still feel some sort of responsibilty to the other (abusive relationships aside).

However, I think the above comment is rather selfish. Of course you don't maintain a friendship with someone you don't get on with, and that also can apply to siblings and extended family, but I believe when it comes to parents some allowances should be made - just as parents make allowances for children. Some people seem to think it is their right to dislike their parents - but remember that parents can also dislike a child, but in most cases still love that child.

I don't think it's selfish not to want to spend time with people you have nothing in common with, or who don't enhance your life in some way.

That doesn't mean you have to be rude or unpleasant or actively hostile, but equally is there any real benefit in forcing a relationship with someone you have nothing in common with, just because they gave birth to you or raised you?

I read so many threads on here from people who are miserable because they feel obligated to spend time
parents they don't like or have nothing in common with - and I do wonder why they keep pushing that relationship when it clearly isn't or any benefit to anyone and just leads to arguments and misery all round.

I don't think it's selfish not to want to spend time with people you have nothing in common with, or who don't enhance your life in some way.

Well we will agree to differ as I think it is selfish to only want to spend time with people who "enhance" your life. I like to mix with different types of people - just because we don't have anything in common or they aren't useful to me in some way doesn't mean they aren't interesting or worth bothering with. It makes us more well rounded people.

If you don't wish to bother with your family that is your prerogative - just as long as you don't expect anything from them in return.

I am pretty old - and have never been on TikTok - but I genuinely don't understand why a biological relationship should create any kind of obligation, whether that is caring for elderly parents or looking after grandchildren. Families are just people thrown together by random biology - we may simply not like certain family members, so should that mean that we are stuck with them forever? In my view, friends are far more important because they are people we choose to have in our lives - a friend of 40 years standing will always be top of my list. However, as I've said before, it's about personal choice so everyone should just do what is right for them, without judgement.

“Forcing a relationship with someone you have nothing in common with just because they gave birth to or raised you”

God how self obsessed and self centred do you sound? When your parents raised you there was no doubt many times they thought it was boring and I’m sure there were many times you didn’t “enhance their lives”. Perhaps they should have just walked away and said it was all pointless and boring? 🙄

I think it’s a ridiculous thing to say. But if someone is dim enough to believe that kind of statement there’s little point arguing with them.

As parents (well, any person!) age, they can become markedly more irritating. People get set in their ways, stubborn, have old-fashioned views, struggle with technology and develop infirmities.

Should we bin off our parents because they are not fun, life-enhancing all-round paragons of virtue? Some posters on here must consider themselves remarkable, faultless people who will never, ever pass their sell by date.

Of course nasty, abusive parents are owed nothing, but most are just basically decent who did their best. Funnily enough it always seems to be the child who was most pandered to who turns on their parents. A difficult personality will always be difficult, and according to them it’s always someone else’s fault.