Teachers - most disliked profession on mumsnet?

[OhReally18]

In the last few days, I've seen a lot of teacher bashing on mumsnet. Even teachers giving other teachers a hard time. Seems like it could be one of the most disliked professions on mn. Is this a true reflection of how the rest of society feels?

I've been teaching in primary for a good few years and I have never experienced bad feelings towards teaching in real life, just on here and social media occasionally. Maybe the odd envious comment about holidays but that's it.

It's by no means harder than other professions but teachers are portrayed as lazy, moany, hard done by, ungrateful, the list goes on...
Is this fair? Surely it's no different to other professions?

Reams of posts suggesting that they shouldn’t have to work when it’s hot, complaining at working in their lunch hour, saying that they should not be expected to step in when a child is being assaulted, and so on

Posts saying shouldn't have to work or expressing concern for the state of the learning environment for your children?

Should anyone be expected to work from 8:30-3:10, on their feet, without access to food and water and the toilet? I mean I'll be screamed at now by health professionals who work longer shifts and struggle to get breaks. Does that make it OK?

Expected to step in as in attempt to verbally stop an assault or put themselves in harms way as a matter of routine? Bearing in mind teachers are not routinely taught deescalation techniques, or self defense. And noting that teachers have been sued for putting their hands on children who were assaulting others. Oh and some 'children' are over 6ft tall and weigh 15st plus. Teachers frequently deal with these difficult situations alone - only adult in a classroom, only adult on duty in a playground or on a field.

Schools didn't close. I don't know how many times we have to say it.

It's the volume.

This is mumsnet. The majority of posters have children in school.

Primary teachers in particular tend to be women. And many will have children, so post on mumsnet.

So when a mum comes on here to complain about a teacher or a school, and they're being unfair (which is by no means always, but it happens) there are lots of teachers around who are going to be defensive.

And yes, when people blame teachers for schools closing when they don't get to make those decisions, or when someone claims they only work school hours for 39 weeks of the year, they're going to get a chorus of 'it's not like that'.

Teachers don't post out of thin air to tell people they work hard. They post that after someone has criticised them or claimed otherwise. And members of other occupations would do the same.

Teachers only stand out here because of the sheer number of posts about schools.

God, the arrogance. It's okay to say "Yes, you're right. I'll retract that."

@echt

Denying that the first lockdown was an extended holiday for lots of teachers

Stick a few scanned work books on the app on the Monday morning, jobs a good un for the week

Who made you the decider of who has the most or least stressful job?

Go on. Tell me where I informed the world of the most and least stressful job.

Oh the arrogance in your post

It's my opinion. It's not arrogant. I'm not telling anyone else what to think.

Why so shirty?

Not really.

The retention rate is notoriously appalling; you would have to make a comparison between 'people who have a UK teaching qualification which makes them eligible for teaching posts', 'people who have the above & are employed as teachers in the UK', 'people who have the above & are teaching overseas' & 'people who have the above & aren't teaching at all'.

Most people don't like it, & do indeed go & find another line of work within the first few years, so the system is functioning as you suggest. Which means it isn't functioning very eell.

@howtomoveforwards

Oh yeah that's right

I'd forgotten that all pupils continued to go to school as normal.

🙄

My job is the hardest job in the world … said no teacher ever. My job is hard … said every teacher who does their job properly. I’m past caring really. I love my job, the children, their families (mostly) but I really really couldn’t give a toss what some know nothings on mn think of my profession. I know what it’s like, what it takes and I know how much difference I make. The rest is piffle, ignorance, piss and wind.

This is what you said...

It might be quite hard, sometimes very hard, but it's NOT the hardest, most stressful etc. etc. job in the world.

I find it arrogant when people try and tell me what my job is like having never done it. I have no idea which jobs are more stressful than others. I wouldn't be so arrogant to say either way.

I taught online full time, went into school to look after vulnerable children and looked after my own two disabled children at home. I don't know what more I could have done

But the teacher upthread said that you weren’t allowed to teach during lockdown.

So which is it?

@Topgub
We opened at 7.30 and closed at 5 and worked through holidays because there was no other child care available ( and during the first lockdown, that's what we were instructed to provide, not education but childcare). So staff were on a rota. Even though we had a reduced number of children in school, as instructed, every class and every spare space was utilised so we needed more staff in school, not less!

Being consistently pro school closures makes me lose respect for teaching profession. They clearly don't respect my job either.

Honestly from the replies on this thread condescension and patronising (and I might add nit picking) abound...point proved.

I mean in all honesty I’d have had no issue if they’d just said nah, we’re closed for the time being, teachers are
on furlough or whatever and we’ll work out the logistics later.

The galling part for me was the insistence that they were “working flat out”.

I’m quite sure some were. But let’s not pretend they all were. One day a week in the hub then didn’t see them for dust the rest of the week.

Denying that the first lockdown was an extended holiday for lots of teachers. Stick a few scanned work books on the app on the Monday morning, jobs a good un for the week

Really? I taught every lesson live from week 2 of the first lockdown. Plenty of children didn't bother attending, however. What assumptions shall I make about them?

@PearTree120
Different local authorities had different rules at different times!

@spanieleyes

That definitely did not happen here.

Hardly any children got a space. Very few of those who did took them up.

They absolutely did not stay open over the holidays.

I've seen emails from head teachers emotionally blackmailing parents into not taking up spaces.

My kids own school sent out emails about (paraphrase) not expecting much from online learning because teachers had their own families to think about

Teaching unions, teaching management, LA and some teachers did not cover themselves with glory during the lockdowns

The continued but but but I did work just makes me think so what? You bloody should have been

My God, the pedantry amongst the ‘non-teachers’ on this thread is alarming… it’s a double bluff I tell you, we’re all teachers 😂

@PearTree120

Couldn't agree more.

There were couple of mornings where I arrived to a locked school gate. Just like that. No warning. I actually swore out loud "For fucks sake, not this again!!" on the third time.

I'm not over it. Teachers have acted with utter contempt towards other working parents.

@howtomoveforwards

What assumptions should you make about children

I'll leave you to answer that yourself, sounds like the assumptions are well formed

It might be quite hard, sometimes very hard, but it's NOT the hardest, most stressful etc. etc. job in the world

I know what I said. So again, where do I say what is and isn't the world's hardest job? I simply said that it wasn't being a teacher.

I find it arrogant when people try and tell me what my job is like having never done it

I find it arrogant that you assume you know my CV.

I have no idea which jobs are more stressful than others. I wouldn't be so arrogant to say either way

Why on earth is is 'arrogant' to suggest that being a teacher is not the world's most stressful job?

You really SHOULD have some idea of what jobs might well be more stressful. To simply acknowledge their existence is not arrogant - that perception is simply foolish.

This is all a classic example of what I said. You reacted with outrage that I didn't think being a teacher was the most stressful job in the world. The mere suggestion that someone else might have a MORE stressful job meant that I was putting teachers down.

That's exactly what I wasn't saying.

What does make me a bit impatient is this:

UK teachers did do a lot compared with a lot of countries, honestly. Key workers kids being kept in school, online teaching (after the first closure), and UK school closures were not too bad by international standards.

But I think it's only fair to point out that much of this was done in the fact of really strong opposition from the unions and much of the profession.
Opposition to any live online teaching until they were made to do it ("privacy concerns" etc.). Opposition to KW kids being in (I remember the complaints). And opposition and anger every time schools threatened to reopen. If the unions and profession as a whole had had its way with no pushback, UK schools probably would have been closed for closer to two years.

Why do I say this? Because around the world, the length of schools closures has correlated closely with the strength of teaching unions. In the States, teachers unions in Democratic are far more powerful because of the highly decentralized nature of education in the States and because the Democratic party has such powerful links to local teachers' unions. Schools were closed for about year and a half in most big Democratic cities! In parts of the US with weaker unions, schools reopened again at similar times to the UK. The worst situation of all is being seen in middle-income countries like India and the Philippines, where many schools are STILL not open. Two years of education, swathes of the child population has lost. Corrupt local governments and powerful teachers unions make teachers virtually unsackable in such countries.

Conversely, in countries where highly centralized management makes unions weaker like France and Japan, schools opened relatively quickly.

The fact that the sort-of "baseline preference" for the teaching profession seems to be "keep schools closed for as long as possible, years maybe" has made me raise my eyebrows a bit.

And it certainly has reaffirmed my general feeling that teachers' unions should be kept at a fairly weak level and prevented from being too powerful. That's a shame, in a way. Teachers unions could potentially be a force for good as well. But what I've seen in the last two years, looking around and comparing country/region with country/region is teachers' unions doing a lot to destroy public sympathy.

But the teacher upthread said that you weren’t allowed to teach during lockdown.So which is it?

Depends on the school. Most were open. Most were online teaching. Most had staff running around chasing kids who had disappeared, delivering food vouchers etc etc Some staff were sick, hospitalised and died. Others lost family members or had to manage caring responsibilities and their own vulnerabilities like everyone else.

I teach in a food production area ( farming and processing) with huge distribution centres, near a large hospital. We were full to bursting every day with key worker families, we had children in the hall, in the corridors and in every space we could find to try to meet demand.