The one where Big Dog gets poop scooped Thread 10

[InMySpareTime]

Old Thread

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4584475-boris-johnson-and-the-long-road-to-nowhere-38-resignations-and-counting-thread-9

Jeremy Hunt and Esther McVey ticket.

It makes sense. Hunt is viewed as to the left of the party and soft on Brexit. He needs a running mate who is nuts to the right of the party.

He has said she can have Deputy PM though. Not one of the big offices of state like Chancellor which you would normally see as the deal in an election pact.

Deputy PM is largely a none job. Raab has done very little of substance in the job. Clegg was different because he was head of his party and that gave him power which being deputy pm within the same party doesn't give.

So the most you are seeing here is possibly trying to manage a certain faction within the Tories. Its an unavoidable reality for someone who isnt on the crazy end of right atm. That doesn't necessarily mean he is going to let them run riot, indeed I'd argue the opposite.

Beth Rigby tweeting that they want to whittle down to 2 candidates by 21/7.
I'm surprised that Patel hasn't launched a campaign (yet).

No apology needed Downing, you explain it very well.

I use ' they know what a woman is" in the same way as' but Jeremy Corbyn'. It is an empty phrase and when you ask people to back it up, there is no answer, just more sound bites.

Well said @DowningStreetParty

I have been watching the Undeclared War and all the stuff about bots and so on is absolutely fascinating. I had no idea.

So are Labour going to call for a vote of no confidence now or let the Tories keep on with their games?

I can't but help think that virtually all of the candidates standing represent an outlook that the public have so far decisively rejected. It's all tax cuts and small state stuff. That was fine 50 years ago, now we need to rebuild the social fabric.

I haven't yet heard any of them put forward their plans for tackling the cost of living crisis, which I think is the issue which worries most people.

All I heard from Jeremy Hunt was how he had made it big by himself and cut taxes for businesses, in other words help himself !
None of them even care about normal people at all or addressed the problems we all face.
We will have two years or more of this as well

I think tax cuts and small state will appeal to many but they won't necessarily register that there are consequences to both of those policies.

I'm finding it very annoying that there is acknowledgement they've been in power for the last 12 years!

I doubt that Patel will stand, she must know she hasn't got a chance. She's probably auctioning her support for the highest offer in terms of continuing in a high profile job.

"I haven't yet heard any of them put forward their plans for tackling the cost of living crisis, which I think is the issue which worries most people."

This should be central. It's cheaper and easier to focus on the ECHR though!

Am I right in thinking they are both empty reasons for justifying voting for the Nasty party?

RedToothbrush thank you. I can appreciate that political compromises may need to made in hopes of winning over the extremes but that’s taking such a huge credibility hit for Team Hunt.

I can’t see it flying with either the moderates who like Hunt or the hard liners. I would have thought Hunt could have done OK (but not got the leadership) running as a less-good-than-Matt Hancock Former Health Secretary, if he’d have found a really experienced well-respected moderate to be the wind beneath his wings.

Hunt was brought in to be a fresh face to implement Andrew Lansley’s awful health reforms, under Cameron as PM. It didn’t go well. It was under Hunt’s watch that we had the first general strike across the NHS in England on 12 January 2016, the first such industrial action in 40 years.

Junior doctors withdrew their labour for routine care in February, then by April 2016, junior doctors withdrew from emergency and routine care, the first time this had ever happened.

To be fair to Hunt I had to Google the exact dates to remind myself, but his record sticks in my mind. So if he has to focus on his claim to fame of having had really big job, because he’s got a crap and nonentity running mate, his Ministerial record won’t be doing him any favours.

Nadine Dorries being DCMS minister has rather demeaned that office that Hunt once held, even though the 2012 Olympics was a success .
And fair enough, Hunt did have a year as Foreign sec under Theresa May during the Brexit fighting, but then he unsuccessfully ran as party Leader against Boris Johnson, after May left. Hunt went back to the backbenches and on to committee work which has credibility. So it seems kind of strange and unlikely to succeed why now he’d get back in the ring, apart from perhaps feeling some personal animosity towards Johnson? Not enough in itself to make anyone PM, there’s a whole queue of other hopefuls who feel like that too.

IMO, yes

They are all promising to cut (corporate) taxes without explaining how they are planning to do that.

Zahawi mentioned 20% across departments so I guess that includes Health and Education.

I am totally against TWAW stance from the far right. I don't believe in biological makes sharing spaces with biological woman or competing against them in sport.

However this is T the hill I'd stop at when voting.

Why?

Because despite what Johnson said and despite what Tory's say biological males HAVE invaded woman's single sex spaces in their watch.

This goes beyond party politics and they have no jurisdiction over some of the bodies that did allow this or those that continue to.

I believe this is an issue that can be fought whoever is in power - and will need to be.

Thanks DuncinToffee and I completely agree with your point!
JGW yes exactly right. It’s the latest form of whataboutery really. There have been some threads on it in FWR and I think most people who were chuffed with it at first have realised that they are being played.
But it’s a free country (for now!) so fair enough, if people want a Tory government. Tories gonna Tory though and the current crop seem specifically untrustworthy. That single issue vote seems a dead cert to be a wasted or misplaced one.

I am going to say one thing on this issue and then no more.

My sister was called a boy by many people from a very young age (this nonsense some people on Twitter have that they can just 'spot' a woman is offensive to so many). had she grown up now her very obvious issues would have been addressed far earlier , instead very many harmful behaviours emerged.

She is currently transitioning, aged 50.

When this whole process is finished she (used for now by me) will be so much happier than she was in her tortured childhood. On a personal level, she will no longer be my sister and he will no longer be my mum's daughter. This is not easy at all for my mum and my sis is not doing this for shits and giggles. Her employer (police force) is entirely supportive of her as is her (female) partner.

I also have a disabled sister so see everything from many angles. Disability rights is ne of my passions.

I am hopeful that my sister can't - or doesn't- see some of the vitriol directed at trans people on Twitter - and , in all honesty- on MN on certain boards,where TW are called 'men in a dress' etc and spoken about in dehumanising ways.

I fid this all deeply harmful and really very nasty.

My sister is transitioning in the opposite direction, obviously, so MN seems less interested in this , perhaps but to be properly GC does cut both ways.

Above all , my (currently) sister is a human who deserves equality, dignity, kindness and respect.

Personally, when the transition is complete she will become what I (and she )always believe she was anyway which is a man. I do not have a problem with that definition.

I think sometimes the people behind these stories are not seen. It's a complex issues which is why I don't like politicians being backed into corners as some kind of humorous gotcha. It seems Mordaunt has to completely rewrite her beliefs yesterday to be more palatable to (some) women (don't tell me Tory staff aren't trawling MN because they definitely are and will ave told Penny there was a thread about her).

My vote then is most likely to go to the part who provides dignity and equality to all people, and most specifically, minority groups. This will never be the Conservative party. I don't think the bit above about age demographics is accurate btw based on the few surveys on social, attitudes which have been done about gender issues. These surveys do show a different societal attitude form what can be seen to be accepted as 'what all right minded women ought to think'

I never visit FWR and think of this thread as a safe space so would like the argument to move on - but not my choice. Carry on if necessary.

I would just like people to own their vote instead of making out they had no choice because of whatever.

All the best and happiness to you, your sister and your family Piggy

Joe Mayes

Update on the Tory leadership contest... 😉

I think we can all get on board with this -

"And in some ways, I offer continuity. Like Boris Johnson, my “journalism” often involves making stuff up in a desperate search for attention. Like Johnson, I think hiring Dominic Cummings was a terrible mistake. And like Johnson, I am too lazy and easily distracted to be an effective prime minister.
I am head and shoulders above the other candidates. Literally. And I share key qualities with each of them. Like Rishi Sunak, I would almost always rather be in California. Like Tom Tugendhat, I can work a mention of the military into any conversation. And like Grant Shapps, the first time I made a spreadsheet I went on about it for ever."
thecritic.co.uk/the-call-to-serve/

Also sending good wishes to you, your sister and all your family piggy. I want equality for everyone, trans people included. It always seems to me that there is a common enemy in the trans debate - violent predatory men. They are the people we should be fighting against.

Thank you. Appreciated.

Meanwhile in The Times

If you missed Penny Mordaunt's long-awaited leadership launch yesterday, here's an abridged summary of how her Little Britain-style video has been received: she's had to excise the bit featuring the Team GB sprinter who complains he'd never endorse the Tories. And the bit with convicted murderer Oscar Pistorius. And the vaccine expert Dame Sarah Gilbert. And England cricketer Jonny Bairstow. And several identifiable police officers, who by law cannot be featured in political campaign material. Other than that, though: nailed it

I thought that the Times was a right wing paper , but they seem to have it in for the tories lately especially the stories about Johnson the other day etc

.

I haven't seen it so thanks for that. I read Jo Cox was in it, has she been left in? I can't imagine she'd want to be involved in the Conservative leadership election but I suppose her husband would be the best person to judge.