Do I tell her the truth or mind my own business

[Primetv]

We've known this family for about 9 months now. DD (4.5) has become friends with their DD (4) , both going to the same nursery but my DD is morning , their DD is afternoon.

Today we had a nursery trip to the zoo. Their DD was assigned to me because we know each other. I know their DD is not very compliant usually and whenever we have playdates she decides where we go, what we do and how long we stay. She never budges for anything.

The trip started with their DD, let's call her Anna, not wanting to wear her wrist band and her high visibility jacket. Then she screamed she didn't want to get on the bus. Eventually she got on but a teacher had to keep her on her lap. Eventually I convinced her to wear the required stuff, then at the zoo we had little battles for absolutely eveything: going on little tours, washing hands, staying with the group. She'd say no or I don't want to do it to EVERYTHING. We managed in the end but by the end of the trip I felt exhausted. I felt I didn't get a chance to talk and enjoy my DD company as my whole attention and energy was focused on Anna.

I sent her mum a few pics during the day but haven't said anything about her behaviour. She then asked me if Anna listened to Mr and I said so and so. I explained she didn't want to go with a group to do certain things as she wanted to do other things. She got very defensive and tried to defend her behaviour to which I said don't worry, she's been absolutely brilliant.

Then I remembered that Anna's mum told me previously about a few 'incidents' and feedback from her nursery teachers about Anna's behaviour which she always challenged and I feel the parents are in complete denial that there is anything wrong with it. They said that's her personality and that's how she is at home too.

DD also mentioned that Anna didn't want to sit down at carpet time and stayed away from the group, something that the teacher mentioned before and the parents again challenged that, they can't quite believe it. One of the parents also mentioned to me today that Anna's been good today as usually she is very hard to manage (I guess I was the one dealing with it so they didn't have to).

Do I mention any of this to her mum or do I mind my own business? I feel they don't quite know any of this and are reluctant to believe the teachers, as they thi

2 weeks ago Anna told the parents she wasn't going to participate in Sports day so they didn't even bother coming to nursery. She apparently sat on the side.

So?? My dd is having terrible anxiety about her sports day and I will be more than likely keeping her off school that day. You seem very judgemental. Thank your lucky stars that your child's behavior isn't 'difficult and abnormal'.

She needs help from her parents and school and not use other children as a crutch. The parents need to acknowledge that.

@Primetv your child also makes friends very easily, again very lucky. I'm sure your dd will be fine. I feel for Anna as I have one of her at home and it's hard and heartbreaking.

Going forward don't arrange any play dates. If mom asks why just say her DDs behaviour is too challenging.

Sorry to hear that. I was a very very shy and anxious child, didn't make friends very easily. And I've been an introvert all my life, although I did make a lot of friends later on in life. Not sure who DD takes after and I have no idea how she is going to be as an adult.

I think that it’s more cultural problem then some sort of SN issue. Anna is brought up by her Nan who doesn’t have good English it means for me that her Nan is not from UK and has different ideas how to parent DC. I’m just being realistic there. The story about Anna’s cousin is very telling. Whatever you tell to Anna’s parents it won’t make a difference. It’s a cultural thing so it’s too deep. As Anna was assigned to your group there might be a chance that the nursery think of you as a friend so I would stop this. You should let them know politely but clear that it’s not the case and you are not interested at this friendship. And be careful so no one could say you are racist. Maybe approach it from the point of view that you don’t think that your DD is interested much and Anna doesn’t give her chance to decide or express opinions etc. don’t talk about Anna’s issues they are not your call. Invite other girls more, Anna less and notify their teacher. Tell her clearly that you don’t know why Anna’s parents did their request but you are not entirely happy about it and express your concerns.
Anna will definitely change as she will be at school most of her day not with her Nan, your DD and she might develop nice friendship but it’s much better when it happens naturally.

@Primetv thanks yes I was too.

Also Anna is not shy at all. She is very loud and disruptive

That does not mean she is not shy. Being loud could be compensating for lack of social confidence. In what capacity were you on the trip?

I'd leave any difficult discussions to the school Op but I'd keep a close eye on the situation too. It's not fair for a four year old to be responsible for another child and you need to encourage lots of other friendships. If Anna has SN the school will see this and talk to the parents and get her the extra care she needs.

Mind your own business. Her parents are totally aware of her difficult behaviour and struggle with her every day so know just what she is like. They are also embarrassed, confused, feel helpless and need guidance. They don't need you pointing out their 'inadequacies' and criticising their DD.

Hi OP, I commented previously about my son with asd and pda. It's his sports day soon, and he won't be attending. He will not manage listening to instructions and waiting his turn. He literally can't. He would more than likely refuse to participate as he'll be so anxious about what to do and when, and would be disruptive as a result. He will not be attending either. This is both in his interests and those of his classmates as it would make for a miserable time for everyone.

From what you have said Anna's parents were right in not forcing her to attend. I would say they are aware of her behaviour but given Anna's age it is incredibly difficult to get support even if they were asking for it (though I appreciate it would appear they might not be at this moment in time). I brought up my child's behaviour with GP, school prior to starting reception, health visitor... they all did the patronising head tilt and literally laughed at me, saying that all children could be like this and that he'd soon fall into line. Unfortunately that was not the case.

From my experience, the school will have Anna's parents in sharpish once she starts school. If it is as serious and persistent as you've described the parents won't have any choice in whether to accept what they are saying, as if they don't work with the school she will be excluded.

Thank you for your reply. Sorry you had a hard journey with you DS but you did the right thing referring him and dealing with what you thought wasn't right from very early on. I'd like to think I'd have done the same. I'm very surprised you didn't get that support from NHS?!

I did find out today from another parent that Anna has been given some extra support on the side with another boy and girl from nursery who are on the SEN register. Something I didn't know and I understand they didn't want to share. So I believe once she starts school they'll carry on with the support and hopefully any disruption to the class will be monitored and dealt with.

I find it very bizarre that the nursery assigned to me a child with sn. I know it's due to perceived friendship and also I speak her native language but I still think it was wrong. A huge eye opener for me

Glad to hear Anna is getting some support from nursery. I'm sure they will fully brief the reception teaching staff too. We got help from camhs once he started school - they couldn't ignore me when ds was at risk of exclusion.

I definitely agree that you should not have been supervising Anna on the trip. At least you're forewarned now and if you go on any school trips in future you'll know to refuse!

Popping back to my thread. I'd like to speak to DD's future teacher about the concerns I have. I have no experience with this. Does anyone have any words of advice?

Anna's mum says Anna is already saying she doesn't want to go to school, but she tells her that her friend (DD) is going to be there with her so it's all going to be fine. I really don't want this pressure on my DD.

Hi op , just be open and honest with the teacher. They come across situations like this all the time . Just focus on your concerns for your child .

You have my sympathy!

Why did they make that request?

I think you will be doing the right thing in speaking to DD’s future teacher.

We had a slightly different issue, but our story might have some relevance. A new family moved onto our street, and their DD was joining my DD’s class at school the following September (in about Y3). The girls had become friends over the summer, but our DD had struggled with some controlling behaviour from her new friend, and was dreading her joining the class (one form entry school).

I spoke to the teacher and expressed my DD’s concerns. Initially the teacher was surprised and a little disappointed, having been told by the other girl’s parents that they were great friends and having planned to sit the girls together and have my DD ‘look after’ the new girl in class and at breaks. However, I explained that my DD was becoming anxious that she would never be able to ‘escape’ her, either at school or at home.

The teacher buddied the new girl up with another child in DD’s class, and although my DD had a few months of friendship issues until the new girl found her ‘tribe’, I was glad I had spoken to the teacher as she had an understanding of the relationship from both sides from the start.

@Primetv , to be honest at the end of term we're all a bit frazzled and thinking about those moving up, writing reports etc. There is not a lot she can do over the summer holidays. If you have decided to move classes then you'll need the head teacher for that.

You can definitely speak to the nursery teacher about your concerns and they may well bring up a concern directly with the teacher/ add a note to any transition documents (there's usually quite a bit of communication between them). I'd wait until DD is in class to address any issues with the teacher or you'll just come across as high maintenance in advance. They'll be mentally eye rolling whenever you want a 'chat', which will then undermine your case a bit.

I would absolutely actively discourage this friendship- distance yourself from the parents, no more playdates, and most definitely raise this with the teacher. I had a similar kind of situation when my dc was little. I went to the teacher and explained that I would prefer to separate them more in class and why. I encouraged my ds to play with other kids and move on from this disruptive child. Ultimately, you want your dd to have the best school experience all round and you need to step in at time to do what is best for them.

I would keep it very general with the new teacher, just saying that you understand that Anna’s parents specifically requested that Anna be in the same class as your DD, but that you feel the keenness is a little one-sided, and you would like your DD to be free to form new friendships rather than being paired up with Anna too much at the start.

I mean I'd wait till DD is in the Reception class to address any concerns with the future teacher.

Yes, I think that's sensible. I definitely don't want to appear high maintenance. I will raise some concerns with the nursery teacher as I know they do communicate a lot with the Reception teachers.

Did you have a good outcome?

My concern is that the parents are specifically asking the teacher to put them together, next to each other. I don't mind them quite so much being in the same class, bit I do not want them next to each other as I know my DD will be disrupted.