Do I tell her the truth or mind my own business

[Primetv]

We've known this family for about 9 months now. DD (4.5) has become friends with their DD (4) , both going to the same nursery but my DD is morning , their DD is afternoon.

Today we had a nursery trip to the zoo. Their DD was assigned to me because we know each other. I know their DD is not very compliant usually and whenever we have playdates she decides where we go, what we do and how long we stay. She never budges for anything.

The trip started with their DD, let's call her Anna, not wanting to wear her wrist band and her high visibility jacket. Then she screamed she didn't want to get on the bus. Eventually she got on but a teacher had to keep her on her lap. Eventually I convinced her to wear the required stuff, then at the zoo we had little battles for absolutely eveything: going on little tours, washing hands, staying with the group. She'd say no or I don't want to do it to EVERYTHING. We managed in the end but by the end of the trip I felt exhausted. I felt I didn't get a chance to talk and enjoy my DD company as my whole attention and energy was focused on Anna.

I sent her mum a few pics during the day but haven't said anything about her behaviour. She then asked me if Anna listened to Mr and I said so and so. I explained she didn't want to go with a group to do certain things as she wanted to do other things. She got very defensive and tried to defend her behaviour to which I said don't worry, she's been absolutely brilliant.

Then I remembered that Anna's mum told me previously about a few 'incidents' and feedback from her nursery teachers about Anna's behaviour which she always challenged and I feel the parents are in complete denial that there is anything wrong with it. They said that's her personality and that's how she is at home too.

DD also mentioned that Anna didn't want to sit down at carpet time and stayed away from the group, something that the teacher mentioned before and the parents again challenged that, they can't quite believe it. One of the parents also mentioned to me today that Anna's been good today as usually she is very hard to manage (I guess I was the one dealing with it so they didn't have to).

Do I mention any of this to her mum or do I mind my own business? I feel they don't quite know any of this and are reluctant to believe the teachers, as they thi

I explained she didn't want to go with a group to do certain things as she wanted to do other things. She got very defensive and tried to defend her behaviour to which I said don't worry, she's been absolutely brilliant

Well there you go. You missed your chance. Parents like this really do their kids no favors. I work with this age and we get them. Occasionally it's the kid's issue (SN) but mostly it's the parents (you can tell by house they respond and want to deal with it). I wouldn't bring it up now you missed your chance but I'd gently back away from that friendship:

• Any issues with the friendship in future will be ALL your Dd's fault
• your DD may pick up on these behaviors and start copying
• more likely is that this child will dominate her if/ when they go to school. Hopefully they're not going to be in the same school.

@MerryMarigold You pointed out really well all my worries.

They are going to the same school and going to be in the same class as her parents expressed their wish for Anna to be with my DD. They told the nursery teacher to keep this in mind without even informing us first. I didn't quite realise until today how incredibly hard she was to deal with. I'm hoping that DD will mind her own business and not be influenced by her behaviour. If not, I'll express my worries to the school.

I'll have to slowly back away from friendship as they also keep pushing for regular playdates.

@MerryMarigold

Any issues with the friendship in future will be ALL your Dd's fault

That's really spot on. I had a conversation with her nan a few months ago and she said they tried to socialise with other girls of the same age and Anna didn't really manage to make any friends because all the other girls were either 'too shy' or had 'issues'. She only clicked with DD. My feeling is DD is too easy going but I do hope that once she sees her behaviour at school once they see each other every day she'll naturally move away from this friendship.

Sounds similar to how my son was at the same age. He's diagnosed with autism and pda. Not saying this child has the same but at a young age additional needs are difficult as it can very much look like poor parenting/naughty child and that's what most people tend to assume. If there are potential additional needs it can be difficult for some parents to accept. People often say platitudes like, 'oh, he's a boy/they're youngest in their year/it's a phase a lot of children go through' etc which can falsely reassure in some instances. Defensiveness is a common parental reaction too if they're worried about their child and feeling sensitive to criticism, however well justified it might be! It's a shame the parents weren't on the trip as it would have highlighted how different their child's behaviour was from the rest of the group. Especially during covid, there has been less opportunity to observe children with a group of their peers.

As to whether you should say something? Don't. If they specifically ask about the trip, be factual but kind. "Yes, I think she enjoyed it but she was reluctant to get on the coach/seemed to find it hard to follow the teachers instructions/some other specific example."

Is she an only/eldest child?

@SickKid Thank you for your comment. I do understand it's hard for some parents to accept or even see a problem. She is an only child and mostly looked after by the grandmother as the parents work full time. The grandmother lives with them permanently.

It's a difficult one isn't it, it's possible that grandmother spoils her and she's learnt that simply saying 'no' and kicking off means adults will back down. Or it could be additional needs - none of us can say either way.

School is going to be very difficult for this child whichever one it is though, and certainly won't be helped by her parents being defensive. I would try hard to stay out of it.

I would say though, that if she behaves all day every day like this at nursery then the teachers were seriously out of order in assigning her to you rather than a member of staff. They should have been dealing with the 'tricky' children themselves, or insisting her parents attend.

Talk to the school asap and get her in a different class. Anna sounds like a pain in the arse and given the parent’s attitude it’s not going to get better for a while.

We had the same with one of our DC, the other child’s parents requested they be in the same class but we said we absolutely did not want them together and they separated them.

@SickKid Yes, it baffles me that they've assigned her to me. Her nan offered to volunteer with the trip but they haven't taken her as there were too many adults already, plus she (the nan) doesn't speak English. I do hope next time one of the family members will be there as I don't think I'd want to do this again.

I did wonder today why she is not on SEN register, as she would be given additional support, but perhaps they don't think she needs it?!

@MinorWomensWhiplash1 It's tricky because we like the class teacher she is going to have so I don't want to change that. I think I'll see first how things are going and then I'll make a decision. My DD is usually very compliant and loves her teachers so I'm hoping she'll listen to the teachers rather than being influenced by Anna's behaviour.

That sounds a lot like pathological demand avoidant ASD.

I can only tell you that as a parent it’s a journey to accept that this is the reality you and your child deal with.

I literally couldn’t speak about it without crying for well over a year after diagnosis and that was after years of being called into school, avoided on play dates, etc. It was too painful to consider.

if you’re her friend, be there, listen and don’t pull any punches but also be as accepting as possible. She will be going through all sorts of emotions.

@Nobheadex I'm so sorry for the journey you went through x

She got very defensive and tried to defend her behaviour to which I said don't worry, she's been absolutely brilliant.

Why on earth did you say this when she clearly wasn't absolutely brilliant? The time to say anything, if you were going to, has passed there is no point saying anything now.

No wonder Anna is a horror. It seems that no-one knows how to say no to her

Thankyou. I should add that subsequently ALL of my children were diagnosed with combinations of ASD and ADHD and now it’s just how we roll. I wouldn’t know what to do with a normie! X

@Cheeseandlobster She'd not comply with anything. She screams and runs away but she'd not do what she is told. Sometimes instead of no or I don't want to, she'd say why? And if you explain, there is a small chance she'd comply. But it's a constant battle.

I don't think she was quite so bad at first but I feel she got progressively worse over the last few months.

As a parent I would want to know some of this stuff - but there are some parents who cannot see past their own child and will become defensive if there is any suggestion that they are anything other than perfect. These parents are doing nothing to help their children in the long run sadly but what can you do?

I know someone just like this and I don’t think I would say anything in your shoes. It’s not worth the hassle. You might want to consider how friendly you become with them though - otherwise you could have years of dealing with these parents who cannot take anything in board about their child.

Agree that time will tell if there is an issue such as ASD, PDA etc. and that if there is that will be a journey for the parents to accept it.
i wouldn’t volunteer information about how the child was but would answer factually if asked and not play it down.

It all just sounds so stressful. I would be avoiding playdates for now I think.

"whenever we have playdates she decides where we go, what we do and how long we stay. She never budges for anything."

Stop the playdates, that's not halthy for your child having no input into what goes on.

Lessen contact between them before they even start school.

Do also ask to see your will-be class teacher before they start school and alert her to Anna's need for control in all situations and ask that she's not allowed to dominate your daughter in class or at break and lunch times. Ask that they are separated.

I agree with others that from your description of her behaviour, PDA could be a possibility. www.pdasociety.org.uk/

Little Anna sounds like hard work, but she is only 4. Her mum sounds like even harder work.

Talk to the school asap and get her in a different class. Anna sounds like a pain in the arse and given the parent’s attitude it’s not going to get better for a while.

Wow really understanding post, sounds like my dd who is autistic and can't help her behaviour.

Why, when Anna's mum asked how she'd been did you say 'don't worry she's been absolutely brilliant'?

Totally Agree ,

Why lie as she wasn’t brilliant, the facts are she was and is from what you have said a little horror.
Why Cover it up?

I don’t think there is any point trying to talk to the parents tbh although I would probably have been evasive rather than saying she had been brilliant when she wasn’t. Last time I volunteered for a school trip and has the kid who ran off/wouldn’t listen etc. I found the nearest teacher and said she needed to swap a kid with me as the child I had clearly needed a professional rather than a volunteer.

You should have been honest when she asked you. Her DD was NOT brilliant, she was a little PITA. You've made it look like other people are lying about her behaviour. The little girl sounds like she needs help, which she won't get if people lie about her behaviour.

talk to the school, explain YOU don't want them in the same class, it's not up to Anna's mum.