Do I tell her the truth or mind my own business

[Primetv]

We've known this family for about 9 months now. DD (4.5) has become friends with their DD (4) , both going to the same nursery but my DD is morning , their DD is afternoon.

Today we had a nursery trip to the zoo. Their DD was assigned to me because we know each other. I know their DD is not very compliant usually and whenever we have playdates she decides where we go, what we do and how long we stay. She never budges for anything.

The trip started with their DD, let's call her Anna, not wanting to wear her wrist band and her high visibility jacket. Then she screamed she didn't want to get on the bus. Eventually she got on but a teacher had to keep her on her lap. Eventually I convinced her to wear the required stuff, then at the zoo we had little battles for absolutely eveything: going on little tours, washing hands, staying with the group. She'd say no or I don't want to do it to EVERYTHING. We managed in the end but by the end of the trip I felt exhausted. I felt I didn't get a chance to talk and enjoy my DD company as my whole attention and energy was focused on Anna.

I sent her mum a few pics during the day but haven't said anything about her behaviour. She then asked me if Anna listened to Mr and I said so and so. I explained she didn't want to go with a group to do certain things as she wanted to do other things. She got very defensive and tried to defend her behaviour to which I said don't worry, she's been absolutely brilliant.

Then I remembered that Anna's mum told me previously about a few 'incidents' and feedback from her nursery teachers about Anna's behaviour which she always challenged and I feel the parents are in complete denial that there is anything wrong with it. They said that's her personality and that's how she is at home too.

DD also mentioned that Anna didn't want to sit down at carpet time and stayed away from the group, something that the teacher mentioned before and the parents again challenged that, they can't quite believe it. One of the parents also mentioned to me today that Anna's been good today as usually she is very hard to manage (I guess I was the one dealing with it so they didn't have to).

Do I mention any of this to her mum or do I mind my own business? I feel they don't quite know any of this and are reluctant to believe the teachers, as they thi

I think they put her with you because she's awkward and they hoped she'd behave with a family friend. Next time insist you don't take her as that dynamic doesn't work

... oh and no don't tell the mum, leave it to the professionals it's their job

I'm hoping that DD will mind her own business and not be influenced by her behaviour

That's very hard for a 4 year old. Also the new teacher won't know her and may not bring things up immediately, just think uh oh her behaviour isn't great. You could ask current nursery if her behaviour has changed at all. The difficulty is that you don't want to be a 'precious' mum claiming your child's behavior is the result of copying someone else. I would keep asking the teacher how she is and hopefully you will have a Parent's evening in October/ Nov where you can discuss it more deeply.

It can be illuminating helping on trips. Exposed something I suspected when I helped once. Couldn’t believe what I was seeing! I complained and to be fair school remedied it - if I hadn’t gone on trip would never have known.

I think you should, framed that you don't want to see her DD excluded from trips which you think could happen. Or her DD end up with no friends.

Done away from others.

@Primetv

My feeling is DD is too easy going but I do hope that once she sees her behaviour at school once they see each other every day she'll naturally move away from this friendship.

That's quite a responsibility to put in your very young child, OP. Perhaps you, as her parent, could insist on your daughter being in completely separate classes from the start? Sounds like she's being used as support for the other child who's strong willed and likes to get her own way. Why should this be at the expense of your own child? 🌹

No she’s not. She’s allowed to not feel warm and fuzzy at the idea of having more of these field trips or of having to listen to the mum complain the teacher is being mean to her child.

I think parents are often aware of their child’s behaviour, but don’t want to acknowledge it and it becomes normal to them.

I don’t think you’re being judgmental at all OP, but I think it’s best to keep quiet for now. When you should intervene is if the child’s behaviour has a negative impact on yours when they’re in the same class. You said that you’d speak to the teachers if that’s the case and I think that’s wise.

I hope the school will intervene quickly if there are concerns. If it’s a behaviour issue or a case that the child needs additional support, it’s best dealt with sooner rather than later.

I really can't tell whether they are aware how bad her behaviour is, although her mum did say once that since turning 3 she's become very difficult to manage.

Her nan once said that Anna's cousin, who is a bit older, was going to a nursery here in the UK a few years ago and due to his difficult behaviour the school raised concerns about ASD. However the parents didn't agree with that and took him out of the school and moved back to their country. Quite radical.

Like a pp poster said a school trip can be such a revelation and this definitely was for me. I only wish it happened earlier as I would have done something about them not being in the same class. I'll raise some concerns with the teacher when they start school and make sure I get updates on how DD is doing

Sad isn't it when a child who clearly has ASD is talked about and shooed away from other children. We still have a very long way to go with autism being accepted and understood by society.

You are right that they are using DD as a crutch but I have cut down on play dates and I'll raise some concerns with the teacher when they start school.

The thing is this friendship was not natural in the sense that we were friends with the parents first and obviously the girls played together. I think in a nursery setting they would have not been friends as they are very different. I'm hoping DD will move away from her once they start school. She did ask me yesterday why Anna didn't want to sit down at carpet time and told me that one of the afternoon kids in nursery called her a naughty girl. DD asked why does she behave like that? I've explained that at school she has to listen to the teachers, as she always does, and not pay attention to what other kids are doing.

The parents need to face facts and get that bairn assessed so she gets the support she needs in school. I'd have that conversation me if there are expectations being placed on me and my kid.

As an aside, I always wonder why PDA isn't formally diagnosed but autism is. Autism and PDA combined is horrible for a little kid.

The parents are not doing her any service by being in denial about the child's behaviour. I like to think I'd take the teachers concerns seriously, rather than challenging everything they raise.

You say you didn't get time with your DD because of this other girl .. but you're not there as a parent, surely, you're there as a volunteer to the nursery, which means looking after whoever you're assigned. If you want to take your DD on a trip you can, any time.

Can I ask you what it was? @MsTSwift

@Primetv agreed but my point was about autistic children being called 'naughty' 'PITA' etc by some on here who clearly know nothing about ASD and you making sure your dd isn't anywhere near her.

I already know there will be a parents evening end of Sept, so I will definitely raise that.

I started telling her a few facts but I could see she was getting a bit upset and defensive so I changed my mind. I was too exhausted to deal with that on top of everything I had during the day. But then I thought maybe she should know?! Hence I posted here, I really didn't know what's the best thing to do.

This. You have pushed it and the mum didn't want to recieve your feedback

The trouble with OP not saying anything is that Anna's mother will now be responding to other people's concerns by saying "but she behaved perfectly on that day out", which will just delay mother's recognising Anna's issues.

I had my DD, another girl who was very well behaved and Anna. I feel I haven't paid attention to DD or the other girl at all as I was watching Anna like a hawk, constantly battling for everything. Of course, I was there to help but it could have been a bit easier.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that the child is neuro diverse. She might be, but it is possible that the parents and grandparent style of parenting isn’t one that sets boundaries. MN posters can’t know which it is.

In my experience, parent volunteers and helpers on a school trip are given a group of children who are likely to follow instructions and get on well as a group. I imagine OP was given this group because of the perceived friendship between the girls.

Absolutely ask the teacher for regualr
updates about how your dd is doing.

I was in a similar position years ago. Easy going child and another child latched onto her from a similar age. As in your case parents requested they be placed in a class together.
At first everything was fine. When it became an issue I was made to feel like the unreasonable, mean parent who wanted their child to feel safe and secure in the class. At one point I even had the parents on my case saying I should be more understanding because oldest one has special needs unlike theirs who was just going through a phase.

If you volunteer to go on another school trip have a quiet word with the teacher about the previous trip and that you don’t have the expertise or experience to deal with the child.

If your child wants more play dates, insist these happen in mutual places and one of the adults has to stay.

It was offering support to an anxious child. The balance had tipped too far though my Dd and another girl were routinely missing lessons and other activities themselves. I hadn’t realised the extent of it.

I personally don't care about DD being friends with neuro-diverse children (So many are) but I don't want her friendships to be hard work. In fact she has a friend who has (moderate) sensory issues but they love each other, bounce off each other and the play seems very very easy and happy.

With Anna the play dates are hard work, even with the parents being there. Of course they had nice times occasionally, but like I said in in my op most of the time she decides where we go, how long we stay, what we do etc. She'd not do anything that perhaps my DD would want to do. In fact many times they are not even interacting, my DD follows her around for a bit then they start doing their own things separately. She's more interested in collecting sticks or being mean to wildlife, which her mum gets frustrated with. I reduced the play dates, but we can't completely avoid them, they live in the area and we bump into each other a lot.

DH was once out with DD and they bumped into Anna and her mum. DD went Anna,Anna! So happy to see you! whereas Anna just ran past her as she saw some sticks and wanted to grab them. Then DH had a chat with her mum and they literally didn't interact with each other for that 15, 20 mins. DH found it really odd and I was very surprised by it. But then other times they hug and play nicely, so it's very hit and miss and generally hard work on DD.