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Consent and ‘anything goes’ sex

233 replies

Anothernameforallthis · 03/06/2022 19:48

I work in an educational establishment, not in the U.K. but English-speaking. Without going into revealing detail, we recently had a presentation from a professor of sexual health from the U.S. Her presentation was great in many ways. The overall message was that, frankly, as long as there is consent, anything goes in a sexual encounter and nothing is shameful in any way. Butt plugs, anal, choking, fisting; whatever - she provided graphic expectations of all of them. As long as both parties are consenting adults, anything - anything - goes. She encouraged straight men to experiment with anal penetration. She provided a detailed « Sex toys and how to keep them clean » guide. The whole shebang.

Is this the way it is now ? All I could think was that a lot of this comes from porn.

her focus on consent as the green light for all this really troubled me. I’m not convinced that all young girls / women are necessarily able to consent, properly, even if they say Yes.

My sister works in a UK university, in student services. Basically when a student breaks the university code of conduct (which all students sign up to when they matriculate) she’s the one that investigates the complaints and assesses the evidence for / against the student. A lot of the complaints are of student-on-student sexual assaults, but where the female student does not want to go to the police. Often it’s because she feels like she ‘consented’ to something that she really didn’t want to. We bring girls up to be so compliant, to be kind and nice and polite. They seem to have no idea about the boundaries they c are allowed to set. That they are allowed to say no to rough or unpleasant or kinky sex.

i guess alcohol and drugs are a confounding factor here. The prof is talking about an ideal situation where both parties are sober. Assertive. Aware of and ready to enforce their personal boundaries.

i just seemed to me that we are in the worst of both worlds. Where, literally, anything goes sexually. But where we are still socialising girls to be ‘nice’ and be ‘kind’.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 05/06/2022 09:23

From the experience of being relentlessly pressured to peg a man whdn I didn't particularly want to... submissive men are very focused on their own fantasies, in which the supposedly dominant women are cardboard cutouts.

mustlovegin · 05/06/2022 09:28

we recently had a presentation from a professor of sexual health from the U.S. Her presentation was great in many ways. The overall message was that, frankly, as long as there is consent, anything goes in a sexual encounter and nothing is shameful in any way

I think the problem is that in this case the presentation seemed to be lumping together the mere sexual health aspect which she/he may have been qualified to speak about as a health professional (e.g. how to wear a condom to avoid STIs) with the 'moral' aspect, for lack of a better word.

Students shouldn't take what these lecturers say as gospel when they are giving advice beyond their remit. And frankly, these talks should be a lot more curated before bringing these 'speakers' into an educational establishment.

I think I understand why it's making you uncomfortable OP

ForestFae · 05/06/2022 09:42

PermanentTemporary · 05/06/2022 09:23

From the experience of being relentlessly pressured to peg a man whdn I didn't particularly want to... submissive men are very focused on their own fantasies, in which the supposedly dominant women are cardboard cutouts.

That’s just that particular man being an arsehole and not respecting your boundaries though, isn’t it? I’d be very wary of stereotyping whole groups of people based on your own personal experiences.

leonpride · 05/06/2022 10:30

PermanentTemporary · 05/06/2022 09:23

From the experience of being relentlessly pressured to peg a man whdn I didn't particularly want to... submissive men are very focused on their own fantasies, in which the supposedly dominant women are cardboard cutouts.

So the problem is pushy men, this is not specific to any sex act. You can be pressured into anything e.g. oral on you

HRTQueen · 05/06/2022 11:40

Before anyone starts getting involved in BDSM or acts that are not straight forward sex they should be understanding how having a sexual relationship impacts them and what their boundaries are when they have sex.

Its very concerning there is a push for BDSM to be normalised it’s not (as are clamps and but plugs) it’s a desire for sex which is out of the norms of straightforward sex and much of it can be very harmful and is not safe regardless of who is the more dominant

Stompythedinosaur · 05/06/2022 12:11

After many yrs involved in this i came to the conclusion that "safe, sane, consensual" is bollocks. Everyone doing that stuff is working through or playing out some kind of real issue or trauma.. except for the occasional girl/woman who is just conditioned to go along with male fantasy.

I don't think you can speak for all women, based on your own personal experience.

Hawkins001 · 05/06/2022 12:16

50 shades of grey ? I'm guessing opened up a lot of different people's perspectives to try new ideas ?

kolomo · 05/06/2022 12:21

I was definitely taught by school and the media that if I didn't like any kind of sex there was something wrong with me. That any kind of dislike or disgust was inherently shameful, the sign of some kind of inner mental problem or hangup and that I was broken if I felt that way. That the only suitable response was yes - to be "good, giving and game". As a result I suppressed my own responses and let my body be used in ways that repelled me. And then I felt ashamed of not enjoying it. It was a terrible secret. I couldn't tell anyone I'd never had an orgasm. I just pretended.

"Sex positivity" was harmful to my sexual development. I'm not sure we know how to get it right.

HRTQueen · 05/06/2022 12:36

When I was in my 20’s young women were most definitely considered more desirable if they were wild in bed

i understand that desire but many of us certainly felt a pressure to be. I had a threesome I enjoyed it at the time but felt shame after it wasn’t worth that I wanted to be seen as sexually free. But that’s quite the opposite of being sexually free I wouldn’t feel I needed to be more of anything

being sexually free is all about knowing and feeling confident in what you are happy with not what you think you should be doing this is what we should be teaching young people. If that’s having sex only ever with one partner and not liking xy or z then that’s right for you that’s being sexually free

Owlilac · 05/06/2022 17:32

You are losing out if you think romance and degrading sex are compatible.

They are compatible. I've had romantic sex with the same person that I have kinky or "degrading" sex with. It's not one or the other, you can switch between them. Plus, what is done in the bedroom doesn't make your entire relationship. We still go out for romantic dates and cuddle on the sofa watching TV and do all the normal romantic things you do with a partner.

Owlilac · 05/06/2022 17:35

Your kink has no place in children's sex education.

The talk in the OP wasn't directed at children.

Owlilac · 05/06/2022 17:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Owlilac · 05/06/2022 17:46

And let's be very clear - if is only women and girls who are being choked, slapped, fisted and anally penetrated.

So no men in the world enjoy being dominated by women? I've seen men on their hands and knees getting flogged by women, getting their balls whipped and getting pegged and slapped... It is not only women on the receiving end. Many men enjoy being dominated and degraded/humiliated by women sexually. You can say it's mostly women on the receiving end if you like, but saying it's only women is either incorrect or just a lie to suit yourself.

AmericanStickInsect · 05/06/2022 18:23

I feel like it has to work both ways too. Yes girls don't have to have or consent to sex that involves choking and fisting and anal, but also boys don't have to proposition/engage in those acts to have a fulfilling and satisfying sexual experience either. The teaching (and the reaction in this sample of replies to OP) is a bit 'boys want it and girls dont'. It is less safe for girls, yes, but I also think the message needs to get to the boys that this isn't like a menu of sex acts you need to tick off to be happy/experienced/masculine or whatever. That true, relaxed intimacy can give you the best feels and the best foundation for exploration if it goes that way. I'm sure there are loads of young boys/men frightened to choke their partner or have no desire to try and fit their whole fist in them, and that's a completely legitimate position and won't lower the highs that great sex can give you.

AmericanStickInsect · 05/06/2022 18:27

@kolomo

Your post resonated with me. I remember when 'being frigid' was like you were a disgusting, maladapted freak. I don't think the pressure has lessened, I think it's just morphed to be more insidious and manipulative.

Clymene · 05/06/2022 18:54

I agree with you 100% @CorpseReviver - it's a trauma response. No one wants to examine that because it's too painful.

And fwiw 18-19 year olds aren't what I would call adults.

Clymene · 05/06/2022 18:57

And I agree with you too @AmericanStickInsect

grannybiker · 05/06/2022 18:59

Sex education in schools is totally inadequate.
So the boys and girls, all struggling, take a look at porn with all it's anal, fisting etc which they then see as the norm...

ForestFae · 05/06/2022 19:00

Clymene · 05/06/2022 18:54

I agree with you 100% @CorpseReviver - it's a trauma response. No one wants to examine that because it's too painful.

And fwiw 18-19 year olds aren't what I would call adults.

No it’s not. Neither me nor my DH are traumatised, thanks.

Clymene · 05/06/2022 19:19

Associating sexual pleasure with feeling or making other people feel pain isn't healthy.

Sorry.

Thebeastofsleep · 05/06/2022 19:53

Clymene · 05/06/2022 19:19

Associating sexual pleasure with feeling or making other people feel pain isn't healthy.

Sorry.

You aren't sorry. You're also wrong.

Lots of people enjoy a bit of lip biting, neck biting during sex. It's pain, it's enjoyable and it's healthy.

bigbloom · 05/06/2022 19:59

Clymene · 05/06/2022 19:19

Associating sexual pleasure with feeling or making other people feel pain isn't healthy.

Sorry.

I'd like to hear your insight into which sex acts healthy, sane, non-traumatised adults do. I really do. I imagine lots of things are out of bounds like oral sex, fingering is also degrading, don't even get me started on non-missionary sex.

bigbloom · 05/06/2022 19:59

Are sex toys allowed? I joke, but I do also want to know.

Clymene · 05/06/2022 20:03

Oh yawn @bigbloom

Clymene · 05/06/2022 20:07

I just want to try and being this back AGAIN to the OP.

The OP asked if it was appropriate for a sex educator to include sexual practices in which women get hurt in teenage sex education.

I haven't seen a single argument from the fisting community who are squatting on the thread to justify it so I'm guessing we're still at a no.

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