Consent and ‘anything goes’ sex

[Anothernameforallthis]

I work in an educational establishment, not in the U.K. but English-speaking. Without going into revealing detail, we recently had a presentation from a professor of sexual health from the U.S. Her presentation was great in many ways. The overall message was that, frankly, as long as there is consent, anything goes in a sexual encounter and nothing is shameful in any way. Butt plugs, anal, choking, fisting; whatever - she provided graphic expectations of all of them. As long as both parties are consenting adults, anything - anything - goes. She encouraged straight men to experiment with anal penetration. She provided a detailed « Sex toys and how to keep them clean » guide. The whole shebang.

Is this the way it is now ? All I could think was that a lot of this comes from porn.

her focus on consent as the green light for all this really troubled me. I’m not convinced that all young girls / women are necessarily able to consent, properly, even if they say Yes.

My sister works in a UK university, in student services. Basically when a student breaks the university code of conduct (which all students sign up to when they matriculate) she’s the one that investigates the complaints and assesses the evidence for / against the student. A lot of the complaints are of student-on-student sexual assaults, but where the female student does not want to go to the police. Often it’s because she feels like she ‘consented’ to something that she really didn’t want to. We bring girls up to be so compliant, to be kind and nice and polite. They seem to have no idea about the boundaries they c are allowed to set. That they are allowed to say no to rough or unpleasant or kinky sex.

i guess alcohol and drugs are a confounding factor here. The prof is talking about an ideal situation where both parties are sober. Assertive. Aware of and ready to enforce their personal boundaries.

i just seemed to me that we are in the worst of both worlds. Where, literally, anything goes sexually. But where we are still socialising girls to be ‘nice’ and be ‘kind’.

OP said that these things were discussed with people aged 18+, so that's not children's sex education.

But personally I do think that "rough" sex should be discussed in teen sex ed - not because I think that girls or women should have to have anal etc, but to counter the message that's coming from porn.

No - I’m between 25 and 30, have done university courses relatively recently. I’ve witnessed some of these talks but they’ve never pushed it, so much as just talked about it.

I just can’t get my head around the fact that people use the term ‘kink shaming’ like its a bad thing - Why on earth does society want to normalise people getting off because they are hurting someone?

We need to be able to say that actually it is fucking odd to be turned on by humiliating and hurting someone.

Because what two consenting adults do shouldn’t be shamed or praised, it just simply is. And it’s none of anyone else’s business.

I agree with all your rights. But you consistently fail to understand romance.
Where has it ever been in your life? Because I can't feel it.

How can you feel someone else’s romantic life through a screen? This thread is fucking bizarre.

What was the context of these talks? The objective? Was it older adults talking to university students/younger adults?

We had nothing like this at university, thank God. Perhaps the odd poster about safe sex. I’m sure we all navigated our way as we saw fit, learning at our own pace, making various choices, deciding what we were and weren’t comfortable with.

There were various sex positive lectures/meeting type things that were optional to attend at university. We even had a kink society, again optional, where students would show other students how to use certain toys/techniques - an ex boyfriend of mine got hog tied for a demonstration for example, lmao. Again this was optional, everyone was over 18, no one was made to do anything and it was lighthearted and everyone had a laugh.

What needs to be taught is that while anything goes in terms of consensual sex consent is not a once and for all decision it's fluid It's ok to consent then change your mind at which point the sex must stop Mature folk who engage in " more adventurous " sex will have a code word and an understanding of both informed consent and withdrawal of consent No one male or female should ever feel they have to do something or that they are not normal for wanting to be more adventurous or indeed less adventurous

Because what two consenting adults do shouldn’t be shamed or praised, it just simply is. And it’s none of anyone else’s business

What a crock of utter bullshit, you are either incredibly naive or a pervert apologist.

As I said, Puritanism dressed as feminism. How other women enjoy their sex lives is none of anyone else’s concern.

18-19 year olds so just adults.

I'm going to repost my links again for anyone who thinks that teenage girls need anal sex to be normalised.

www.womensgrid.org.uk/?p=3520

merchedcymru.wales/2022/03/08/the-rse-curriculum-must-address-particular-harms-to-girls/

medicalxpress.com/news/2015-02-large-teenage-girls-sexual-coercion.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50546184

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/02/11/nspcc-survey-finds-40-per-cent-of-teenage-girls-are-forced-to-have-sexnn_7316728.html

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-021-02049-x

I can give you plenty more links if you're interested.

Like this one: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3437385/ which describes catastrophic anal sphincter injuries in a 25 year old woman as a result of anal sex

Or this one which shows a strong link between anal sex and fecal incontinence. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26753893/

Shall we ban cars because some people drive too fast or under the influence?

A better argument is to empower women that their voice matters and consent can be withdrawn at any time, and to be strong in who they are and not giving in to peer pressure.

No idea what you mean by your ex boyfriend but this sounds degrading.

I feel sorry for young people, having “sex positivity” thrust at them (pun intended) in university lectures. There must surely be a correlation with the ready access to porn now. I wonder if “sex positive” is a euphemism for sexual practices that are “heavily influenced by online porn”?

So what's your method then of how people should be ?

Thank you for your links, @Clymene . I said it upthread but will say it again: I fear for our teens embarking upon their sex lives in an era (online porn) in which once-niche activities appear to have become normalised. I have read articles on fecal incontinence amongst young women and I am aghast for them.

A man who I used to date but no longer am involved with.

He didn’t find it degrading, he thought it would be funny to volunteer, did so, everyone had a good time.

How is it thrust on people when it’s optional? I understand completely not being interested, that’s fine, it’s another thing entirely to try and make out there’s something wrong with the adults who are interested in it enjoying it

Read that back to yourself. Out loud. And then tell yourself again it’s me who’s the bizarre one here.

Surely as enlightened as society is , surely it's better that everyone is fully educated on legal sexual activities, so that if anyone does try x activity, at least they are filled educated to do it in a safe manner ?

and if not, then why not ?

It horrifies me that stuff like anal and choking are basically mainstream expectations nowadays. I forget where I saw it but girls are feeling degraded and pressured into these things which should only (IMO) be happening in a relationship where there is a very high degree of trust and maturity.

i don’t think the approach you’re talking about is good enough.

You are the bizarre one here @ForestFae
Does that work now?

@ForestFae - considering bans/prosecutions for dangerous sex practices which lead to serious permanent harm or death is like rules against drink driving or going over the speed limit. It is not banning all sex or only allowing vanilla sex. Driving is highly regulated - have to have a licence, follow speed limit and traffic regs.

we ban paid surrogacy and paid organ donation, which can occur between consenting adults. We have even banned smoking in clubs and pubs - which people, in general, choose to go into. These have good reasons behind them - it is not ONLY about consent.

I’m bizarre for supporting women being able to choose how they have sex? Right.

No it isn't. The OP is talking about 18 and 19yo adults!