Consent and ‘anything goes’ sex

[Anothernameforallthis]

I work in an educational establishment, not in the U.K. but English-speaking. Without going into revealing detail, we recently had a presentation from a professor of sexual health from the U.S. Her presentation was great in many ways. The overall message was that, frankly, as long as there is consent, anything goes in a sexual encounter and nothing is shameful in any way. Butt plugs, anal, choking, fisting; whatever - she provided graphic expectations of all of them. As long as both parties are consenting adults, anything - anything - goes. She encouraged straight men to experiment with anal penetration. She provided a detailed « Sex toys and how to keep them clean » guide. The whole shebang.

Is this the way it is now ? All I could think was that a lot of this comes from porn.

her focus on consent as the green light for all this really troubled me. I’m not convinced that all young girls / women are necessarily able to consent, properly, even if they say Yes.

My sister works in a UK university, in student services. Basically when a student breaks the university code of conduct (which all students sign up to when they matriculate) she’s the one that investigates the complaints and assesses the evidence for / against the student. A lot of the complaints are of student-on-student sexual assaults, but where the female student does not want to go to the police. Often it’s because she feels like she ‘consented’ to something that she really didn’t want to. We bring girls up to be so compliant, to be kind and nice and polite. They seem to have no idea about the boundaries they c are allowed to set. That they are allowed to say no to rough or unpleasant or kinky sex.

i guess alcohol and drugs are a confounding factor here. The prof is talking about an ideal situation where both parties are sober. Assertive. Aware of and ready to enforce their personal boundaries.

i just seemed to me that we are in the worst of both worlds. Where, literally, anything goes sexually. But where we are still socialising girls to be ‘nice’ and be ‘kind’.

Imagine thinking your preferences are universal

It should also be taught to boys AND girls that porn isn’t real life

I don't watch porn as I object to it.

I am a bit confused by the idea that it isn't real. Do porn films use special effects like regular films to make people think they are seeing things that aren't actually happening?

Or does this mean that people who do porn films do acts that most people wouldn't consent to? Because to me it seems that porn is very real for the poor women involved in it.

So no one should ever talk about kink incase some people don’t know how to voice their boundaries? Why not teach women to advocate for themselves instead?

Newsflash - different people like different things to you! Someone liking something you don't like doesn't mean they've never experienced true romance.

If anyone's losing out, it's you when the empathy and common sense were handed out.

Im in my 40s and quite old enough to know that attempts to restrict women's access to sexual pleasure are not a good thing.

I'm also old enough to understand that questioning the age of a poster who disagrees with you is a subtle form of ageism.

No one can define whether a sexual act is always degrading, it really depends on how the people involved feel about it. Personally, I suspect I'd have zero orgasms from a session of "tender and romantic" sex. But I have no interest in attempting to tell other adult women what they should or should not be doing with a consenting partner. I value my sexual freedom quite highly.

I recognise that consent is a tricky issue, and that living is a misogynistic society further complicates this. But I do not think this means women should be treated like children who are always unable to make their own choices about what to do with their bodies.

I obviously don't support the "rough sex" defense for the murder of women. But I support woman's right to have legal sex (which doesn't involve murder) in whatever way they choose woth a consenting partner.

@Stompythedinosaur - do you support unrestricted access to any drugs for consenting adults? Or how about being a passenger in a car without a seatbelt, or going on a fairground ride that hasn’t passed safety checks? If the person who goes on does so knowingly, does that make it ok? Or do we want the people who drive cars and operate fairground rides to also ensure they are doing their utmost to keep people safe?

Just because someone consents to something doesn’t mean that society should allow it. i suppose the balance is how much harm and how much positive pleasure people get from activities. Statistics on how many people come to harm or die after consenting vs how many people get pleasure should probably inform what we deem allowable.

Are you seriously saying Society “shouldn’t allow” peoples sex lives? This is Puritanism dressed up as feminism.

Just because someone consents to something doesn’t mean that society should allow it. i suppose the balance is how much harm and how much positive pleasure people get from activities. Statistics on how many people come to harm or die after consenting vs how many people get pleasure should probably inform what we deem allowable

Ludicrous

Absolutely this. God this thread is depressing.

I’d love to know how you’d even police the sex life of two consenting adults? Mandatory surprise checks from the sex police?

No, but those things are illegal. Hardly the same thing.

I have never said I am in support of men using the excuse of consentual rough sex to harm or kill women.

I am opposed to judging that other women should not be able to engage in their preferred sexual activities (assuming these to be legal) because an uninvolved third party believes them to be denigrating.

The idea that there is a correct and incorrect way to have sex is repressive and, I think, misogynistic. It assumes that women's sexual pleasure is somehow irrelevant to having sex.

@Stompythedinosaur - the question is why are those things illegal? Why can someone not consent to taking whatever drug goes into their body? Why can’t people choose to ride in a car in the way they want?

@ForestFae - you don’t need to police it, but you can consider prosecution if people claim it was sex gone wrong resulting in harm/death to the other person.

@Namenic there isn't a human right to have access to drugs or cars, but there is one to have the right to a sex life.

I'm not sure that the majority of sex that has been described as denegrating is equivalently dangerous, anyway. There's a lot between "choking to death" (clearly a crime) and "romantic vanilla sex".

My view is that feminism that seeks to control women and gatekeep access to sexual pleasure is not real feminism.

We're not talking about you @Stompythedinosaur. We're talking about children. That's what the OP is about. Children.

Your kink has no place in children's sex education.

My "kink"? You have interpreted my defense of women's right to have sex as they choose to mean I have a "kink"? Like, you think there is something strange or perverse about thinking women should have free choice over their sexual choices?

I think this is an issue of body autonomy. Body autonomy is a vital part of sex education. It did not seem like the op was suggesting this information was being imparted to young children. Knowledge about sex is fine to share with teenagers.

@Stompythedinosaur - we don’t have a human right to any sex we want. Paedophilia and bestiality are not allowed. age of consent varies. In some countries sex with sex workers is not allowed.

I didn’t say that the only sex that should be allowed was vanilla sex, merely that we should consider if some acts cause more harm than good overall - especially ones that have led to people being seriously harmed. We don’t have to knock on bedroom doors and check, but we could prosecute if someone came to serious harm after certain acts - it would act as a deterrent.

Call it what you like.

If you think butt plugs, anal, choking, and fisting belong in children's sex education, you're a rape apologist.

Female children don't want to be fisted or choked or slapped. If they do, they're victims of abuse.

I wouldn't want it talked about with children or teens but don't want anal outlawed either, there's a middle ground 😂

I don't think talking in hyperbole does anyone any favours. Absolutely no body is saying what you're accusing people of. If there are any rape apologist posts, please report.

You think this is funny @bigbloom?

Girls being coerced into sex they don't want to have.

I must be missing the joke.

https://www.womensgrid.org.uk/?p=3520

https://merchedcymru.wales/2022/03/08/the-rse-curriculum-must-address-particular-harms-to-girls/

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-02-large-teenage-girls-sexual-coercion.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50546184

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/02/11/nspcc-survey-finds-40-per-cent-of-teenage-girls-are-forced-to-have-sexnn_7316728.html

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-021-02049-x

If you don't think there is a problem with girls and young women being coerced into sexual practices they don't want to do, you're a rape apologist.

What age are we talking? I'm inclined to think that it is OK for 17yos to know that anal sex is a thing.

I've never felt that denying kids info about sex is protecting them.

@Stompythedinosaur - please read the links that Clymene posted.

People have always had sex, they always will. We don't need 'educators' to tell us how to have sex. But right now, young people are having extreme sex pushed on them.

I’m probably “young” by the standards here and no one, certainly not at school or uni, pushed “extreme as practises” on me. Learning they exist is not pushing them on others.

Are you at school now? A great deal has changed over the last few years.