What makes a man a loser in life?

[SouthMan28]

Just wondering what do think makes a man a loser in life?

Try not to frame it as being a ‘loser’. It’s really hard to be stuck in the low-paid job trap, and feeling like you don’t have the opportunity to change it.

You are working and doing your best. That’s the actions of someone with strength and tenacity because it’s so disheartening to work your ass off week in and week out and not see any improvements in your situation.

Do you have children? What would you like to do, if you could?

Lol my DH and I were both losers. We lived with his mum until 27 and 29 when we bought our flat in London! DH was doing his master's until age 25 due to gap year/illness.

I used to think like this. I had a series of low paid jobs after I failed my a levels. I finally got an entry level job with a big company, did some free course on Open Learn (part of the Open University) to help build my confidence and the started applying for higher grade jobs in the company. I still don't have a degree but I have lots of valuable skills built through the years and I'm now earning a decent salary in a job that I love.

You feel like you're not clever enough to earn more but you don't know without trying. If you want to develop, there's a mature study board here that might be able to help. What I've learned is that nothing changes without you putting yourself out there.

Makes sense. My DH is from a poor background but every single one of his aunt/uncles/grandparents/ mum were all homeowners. My MIL thought it was natural to stay at home until you could afford to buy a place..her daughters did move out but as a result still rent. I come from a country where everyone lives with parents until they marry including investment bankers and doctors and lawyers on 6 figure salaries. I do know people on 6 figures still living with parents! My dad and grandparents jointly bought a house when he graduated from university.

Moving out on your own like that only makes sense if your parents buy your flat for you or you are moving for work/studying or you immigrate. Otherwise best financially if you stay with them until you can afford to buy.

She? With a username like SouthMan28....? 🤷‍♂️

I returned to my parents house a number of times in my twenties: roomie engaged and moved in with future husband; relationship breakdown (twice!) and it’s darn expensive to live on your own! It was not possible on minimum wage, despite working all the hours under the sun!!

for me, what makes someone a loser (male or female) is dishonesty or unfaithfulness

bank balance has NOTHING to do with whether someone is a ‘loser’ or not IMHO.
Where someone lives has a little impact over ‘loser’ but I think it’s more attitude and circumstances (and luck?) than the actual physical environment making someone a loser.

If you don't have children with someone else, and life isnt great for you here, and youre so young, why not travel?

friends of mine had a very basic life in England. Lived in a not-so-nice flat on the outskirts of a city, lack of money so they couldn't do very much, both in low-paid jobs with a lack of qualifications. They emigrated to Perth, Australia and ten years later own a beautiful house and he earns enough to support them both.

A lot of people had that idea, to be fair. It's a big part of what led to so many of them being verbally and physically abused by a lot of people during the first few months of the pandemic.

That kind of behaviour existed in attitudes long before there was a pandemic which explains the retail campaign predating covid by some years to change people's overall attitudes towards staff.

A man who treats women badly, who takes drugs and smokes, who doesn't financially and emotionally support his kids.

So you are not a loser OP.

Not really, being stuck in a low paid job for nearly 10 years has made me feel like a loser. People my age at 29 have gone on to university etc and are in much more successful jobs than me and I don't feel like I'll have the intelligence to get a higher paid role...

@SouthMan28 do you have a vision of what sort of job you'd prefer? If so, look at what you'd need to do to acheive it, i.e. what qualifications or skills you'd need, then look at how you could get those. There are lots of free taster courses online (MOOC and Coursera for example) that can be a great way of dipping your toe in the academic water. I always thought I was an academic loser until I did a free course, which lead to an Access course and uni in my late 40s.

You say you don't feel like you'd be intelligent enough for a higher paid role, but what makes you say that?

Borrowing money and not paying it back properly and making a fuss when asked

Thinking about the future and what you want is a good thing but Sometimes thinking too much about it can paralyse you. You are still young and if you wanted to get onto a training course or get a job with progression then I’m sure you would succeed. But a person who is working and taking care of their partner as best they can will never be a loser IMO. You are capable and you are living a good life but it is normal to want more and feel down on yourself sometimes so long as you don’t let it rule you

You don't have to be particularly academic to be successful or earn a high salary. There's plenty of trade type jobs that you can learn and make a decent wage... plumbing, mechanics etc? Hardest thing is working out what you'd like to do

Being on a low income does not mean someone is a loser. People are born by no choice of their own in to families who are already in a socio economic and cultural situation that means a child is influenced day one by that situation.

I know what decisions I made because of my upbringing. I have an immigrant background, children from my culture conform.

You don’t have any children yet so now is the easier time to retrain or career jump if possible. Have you considered an apprenticeship? They are aimed at 16 to 24 year olds but you can still apply. I don’t mean the ones that exploit I mean a career choice such as engineering. My friends grandson is training as a car mechanic through an apprenticeship.

When it comes purely to money the two most financially successful friends I have well one did the traditional degree route through University getting a degree and working their way through the ranks of a global company and the other is a builder who did an apprenticeship but also has business acumen.

Hiya

I too dont like the word 'loser', especially as applied to a thoughtful young man asking tough questions.

Re housing, why not get on the waiting list anyway?? An offer could come through in a few years? Affordable, they take care of maintenance? It's not a bad option..

Also, get good with money. Get an investment, small figure each month, 7 years later, a few grand.

I was alone with no family and no idea. I always had a second job, weekend bank shifts somewhere. £100 a shot. Sometimes I lived off that bit of my pay. But over the years the small pots have grown....

Re jobs, I wish I'd done this.....I stayed at places for long lengths of time. I wish I had moved up every 3 years. Planned my career a bit.

I think you'll be ok. Even thinking about it and feeling depressed is a step on the road to a plan. Good luck xxx life can be hard, we learn skills and surf the waves.

To me, the hallmark of a loser is someone who always looks to blame others for their own failings, never takes responsibility for themselves or their actions and allows life to happen to them instead of doing anything proactive.

And I dont think afflicts are losers btw. Some of them are injured and our worst abuse case survivors. In a society that doesn't get it, doesn't value them and thinks they are losers x

All round, the answer seems to be, be a good person, try, develop and be wise xxx

Yes that seems to be another trait

A sad damaged little boy who had shit parents growing into an angry man and shit parent and creating a sad damaged child and so on.

In general, it takes giving up to fail. Many people who consider themselves a success but who are losers in reality don't realise being a decent human being is key to not being a loser which is why many of my 'City' acquaintances each worth £millions/£10s millions/£100millions) are failures. Neglecting children or walking away or not prioritising children will make someone a loser in life.

FWIW, it is a design feature of a system to have people think it is their fault they are a failure and if only they'd worked harder, been more intelligent or luckier then they too would have been a success. This didn't happen by accident.

Op
it doesn’t matter that you are in a low paid job,!the point is you are working and providing.

id much much rather have a man that had a minimum wage job, worked hard for his family, pulled his weight and was interested in the world around him and treated people with kindness and respect.

cos that’s exactly what my late husband was. He worked as a factory worker all his life, had very little formal education as he was dyslexic and really struggled in school. And yet he was a kind, hardworking, decent man who pulled his weight. He was interested in the world, travelled as best he could, was passionate about his hobbies (but not obsessed) and was a great dad to my children (his step kids)
oh and he lived with his mum until he was 37’(there were reasons why)

a loser is someone like my ex, shacked up with anyone who pays him attention, an addict, treats women like shit, can’t drive, can’t manage his money and likes to coasts of the women who live with him, has no interest in the world around him or having a decent house and basically is a lazy shit.

so honestly op you don’t sound like a loser to me

And by a decent house I mean clean and tidy and looked after

There are billions of people on this planet all living different lives. Your worth is not dependant on anyone else's opinion. There isn't a "proper" way to do things. You are as worthy as the next person.

Somewhere along the way we have this idea of what success is - passing exams/driving tests/relationships/job progression etc. As long as you aren't hurting anyone/breaking actual laws/abusing someone else's hospitality/spending their money there literally aren't any rules.

Drugs and porn are big no nos for me.
A man who doesn’t try —- we’re not always successful but at least try.