Why so many ND now?

[Jumpking]

Had much with 4 friends yesterday. All the ladies told me they're waiting for ASD assessments for their children.

I know so many parents of ND kids.

I don't think I'm unique.

There was around 5 or 6 ND children in my primary school growing up. Now this is per class, minimum. The children weren't in special schools, they just didn't exist in such high numbers.

What do you think has been the sea change in our society that means there are now far more ND children than there were 30 years ago?

(And it isn't because they weren't diagnosed 30 years ago, or we weren't aware... There really weren't children in my school, or the school's of friends I've discussed this with, who had sensory issues, or clothing issues, or only beige and/or dry food, or toileting issues, or obsessive interests issues or all the other ND things which are so prevalent with children today)

As I said, I'm in my 60s . My DH definitely had high functioning autism. He attended a direct grant grammar school that had an excellent reputation, very strict in the way it was organized. When I think of the friends he had and still had up to his death, then it's clear to me that they were all high functioning autistic. He stuck to people who were just like him, god only knows how he ended up with me! If I sat any of you in a room with them and a checklist of what to look for, you would all agree. I know you would. BUT they all got through school and into university, probably at great distress to each of them because they didn't understand why they were 'odd' or 'different' or why the world didn't function according to their rules. At school, I think probably having clear rules helped him, outside it was a different matter, and he was genuinely confused by the world. So, no, I don't think we are seeing more, rather we saw less because we weren't looking in the past. And that goes for lots of learning disabilities, I can remember the kid who was clearly suffering from global developmental delay ; he was classed as 'slow' and just ignored. I hope we have moved on from those times.

@Boymumsoymum completely agree with everything you've said. There is a move now to diagnose those more Impacted with a separate diagnosis for this reason. Also some research recently on brain scans has shown a difference in the brains of those with more profound autism but not in those who are more able.

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/inspectrum/202205/new-research-may-change-how-we-think-about-the-autism-spectrum

I’m 45 and know at least three people my age only just diagnosed. 30 years ago they were just struggling on, hiding their issues and suffering in silence.

My dd is awaiting a diagnosis for autism and I feel like the world is obsessed with diagnosis, rather than addressing the actual issue which is that she is behind and doesn't have good concentration.
In my opinion, when I went to school more was done to address the child as a person rather than as a label. So now we have to wait for years before the school will make reasonable adjustments for her.
I also feel like the school is scared to speak about things like possible learning difficulties which may not be anything to do with neurodiversity! The reason for this could be years of MC parents who have badgered the school into looking for a diagnosis which may not be there, rather than possibly accept that their child might not be academic. I was academic and I must say it is a hard to accept but ADHD might not be the reason why a child isn't progressing (after all most of the people with adhd that I know are smarter than I am). I feel like all the other causes are being ignored whilst we wait for the mythical diagnosis!

This but also resources are so poor. My son had problems aged 2 that was clear - fobbed off and fobbed off. I fought tooth and nail for intervention. School will not diagnose dyslexia - full stop even though it is clear he has it. Autism traits - very clear going to take 2 years and during that time his traits are regarded as him being naughty strange or not listening etc

daughter is high functioning autistic no behavioural issue so they didn’t care - does matter to them she struggles socially and with anxiety - she’s straight level. 9 but it matters to her.

Thanks Justrealised, people seem to have just ignored my post as it doesn't suit their agenda lol

@Boymumsoymum I agreed with you!

Don't remember anyone refusing to eat food... School dinners were served around the tables of 8 children, with the 11yr olds cutting up pies, serving them, then stacking plates. Not a care in the world if anyone got gravy on their hands. Every child would eat most of what was given to them every day.

I can't speak for anyone else but where I went to school food refusal was an absolute no no. You would be punished and seen as 'ungrateful'. Also you'd just go hungry, no one would even think to give you an alternative. You'd go home and be told off as well. I still remember eating liver and onions they'd made us eat, the bitter taste still comes to mind now but none of us dared not eat it.

I was diagnosed as autistic as an adult, I recognised traits in myself when my middle DD was diagnosed (as did her Paediatrician!). I am waiting assessment for adhd as well. I was born in the mid 80s, so this is in Primary in the late 80s, early 90s.

You say

Not a care in the world if anyone got gravy on their hands. Every child would eat most of what was given to them every day.

My experience of this

Being told not to fuss and stop being silly and get on with it, and then as soon as I could going to the toilet and scrubbing my hands, feeling unclean for hours.

You say

Every child would eat most of what was given to them every day.

My experience of this
Hiding food I didnt like by smushing it as small as I could. Eating things I hated while gagging but not showing it. Being made to eat it while the dinner lady watched. Having a friend let me put some of my leftovers on her plate because hers was empty and that way it looked like we both left an "acceptable" amount. If I didn't eat it, I would get told off in front of everyone and the fear of being the centre of attention and everyone looking was greater than the need to not eat. I still have disordered eating now, and it took me till my 30s to realise I AM allowed to say no to foods I hate.

You say

Children all wore school uniform. No adaptations allowed due to sensory issues, and none of my friends used to moan about the clothing causing them issues.

My experience of this**
Wearing and loving the feel of a pinafore dress until I was 8 or 9 but being bullied for it. Wearing knee high socks instead of uncomfortable tights in the winter and being bullied because long socks weren't cool. Wearing the cotton summer dresses as early in the year and as late in the year as I could, even when the other girls were wearing shorts or their school skirts because waistbands did not feel good. As I grew older- choosing to wear clothes that I blended in wearing, while spending my days stressed from how they felt and crying in the toilets when it got too much. And being told off for crying and not being happy.

I thought everyone felt uncomfortable in their own skin, in their clothes, with their food, with things touching them, that everyone second guessed themselves when they socialised, etc. Because we would be told off for not being compliant and told off for complaining and told off for being bullied and told to just get on with it when showing extreme emotion. So it all got internalised, I learnt I am too much when happy/ sad/ stressed and to hold it all inside...

*My experience now *
I do think the world is busier now too then the 80s and 90s which makes difficulties more obvious. I find shops louder, brighter, busier. Cars beep at you when you turn them on to drive them. Vans beep at you when they are reversing. Tannoys, especially since covid, are incredibly frequent, every 5 to 10 minutes there's an advert across the sound system in a shop. Tills talk to you. Shopping centres are full of lights and sounds and smells in the walking parts outside the shops. There are no quiet, calm places in city centres and retail parks to take a breather, even cafes are loud and bright and so on now. So I think society is becoming more overwhelming so childrens difficulties are becoming more evident as there's nowhere to hide. Dealing with an uncomfortable sock is far easier when everything else is comfortable.

Of course people had heard of autism 30 years ago. Rain Man came out in 1988, for one thing, and it wasn't breaking the news to the world that autism existed. I think what has changed is public understanding of autism and the different forms it takes.

@Boymumsoymum I don't think that's an unpopular view- in fact, I think the way people talk now about neurodiversity is an attempt to recognise that- that ND people aren't wrong or broken, they just happen to live in a world better designed for the majority than it is for them and if we can recognise that we can perhaps improve it. Also agree about more support being given to people whose needs are greater.

Op, I hope I don't know you in real life. For a start, your recollections are meaningless. I refuse to believe there wasn't a single child who gave teachers a hard time in some way - you were clearly just as un-observant then as you are now.

The benefit of identifying and supporting children who don't fit the "one size fits all" approach to education is not, as another pp suggested/implied, because we can no longer accept that not everyone is Good at everything. Rather, it is to:

1. Ensure that all children can meet their potential no matter their restrictions (note how many ND people are hugely successful entrepreneurs, inventors etc... those are the ones who managed to get through. What about the rest?)

1. Reduce and minimise emotional distress, long term mental health impacts and any resulting behavioural issues.

These are good things.

And ultimately? If people have made it to adulthood, and are reasonably successfully functioning in terms of jobs, relationships etc....why do they need a label or diagnosis??? I know adults who say yes they can cope but it's 'exhausting 'masking' all day at the office' etc.... Newsflash, life is quite tiring/overwhelming for everyone, it's all quite normal?? It feels like people are just looking for a sense of personal validation for personality traits they happen to have.

I do understand where your coming from but I do think there needs to be so much more investment/funding around autism & ADH diagnosis.

Our 19 year old was diagnosed at 17. She was our first and growing up we ‘managed’ her quirks at home never realising that actually she had autism. Only once it had spiralled into depression triggered by covid lockdowns that it all came together. Family members response was are you sure, she doesn’t seem the type. But that’s because we now understand that she had hidden /masked so much and they only saw us every couple of months.

Hearing her tell us what life had been like for her was initially upsetting but it opened our eyes to what she had gone through. I realised we also helped with the masking - I knew she only liked these socks so I used to pre - buy packets of them incase they went out of stock. When buying clothes I knew the material and what style - cut the tags off immediately - I did all these things not knowing. She is a really lovely girl but struggles with friendships with other girls - that’s hard for us, it’s sad she is lonely and all she would love is a best friend :( She so wants to fit in and not be on the outside :( for example the group she thought where her friends the three of them have booked a months traveling didn’t even involve her or tell her :(

I'm the same OP - about half the parents I know (mostly MC, many of them older parents), with ND kids. ND has always been there - I can think of many people my age or my DPs age who are almost certainly ND - but never diagnosed. My FIL almost certainly had ADHD, DH of friend who she finds super hard work a lot of the time, ditto, a couple of my DH's friends are clearly autistic.

It's like having your eyes opened when you understand what a certain set of personality traits probably means. I was talking about it with a friend the other day and having had interactions with one class of kids for several years we could both see which kids are ND, but all are undiagnosed and so continue to lack support and therefore disrupt the learning of everyone else in the class. The school though says nothing to the DPs, despite knowing there are issues.

As many others have said there were probably loads of ND people in your school 30 years ago, but you just didn't know it as they went undiagnosed. ND people aren't stupid. Many are extremely clever people with university degrees and their own businesses. They've leaned over the years how to mask their issues and just to confirm with society, but it takes a mental toll on them.

ND people have always been here. Most people just didn't realise it unless their problems were debilitating.

I have always had trouble concentrating and focusing on homework and tasks, was always forgetful (could never remember names or why I went into a room / shop), procrastinated everything and would only start revising for exams a few days before and would cram everything in. I learned to mask my problems, but they've always been an issue in my life. I am awaiting an ADHD diagnosis (have been for 2yrs on the NHS. The waitlist is so long that they've only seeing adult referrals from Oct 2018 now, so in reality the waitlist is at least 4yrs!!! I'm paying to go private). An adult adhd diagnosis required evidence from childhood. Symptoms just cannot be developed in adulthood. I had to have my mum complete a form for me giving evidence and when I asked her she was surprised that I was seeking out a diagnosis. Although she agreed I had loads of the issues on the form, when she took my brother and I to a psychologist we were shown to be 'gifted and very smart' (which we both are) so she just thought the issues were normal kid things. She assumed as I got older and went to uni and have got a string of good jobs that I just grew out of it. My struggles were not and are not things I talk about. I was always told I had so much potential but that was lazy just needed to try harder. So I grew up believing I was lazy and stupid and struggled to understand why I was so different and couldn't achieve what everyone else did. I find all my issues very embarrassing and my pride gets in the way. But they impact my life everyday. Things like lateness, loosing no my train of thought, not replying to emails / texts, forgetting details & appointments, messiness around the home, over sharing, telling long winded stories, not being able to focus, can't keep up with deadlines, etc. With the pressures of 2 children and a job and running a household and trying to maintain some form of friendships it's just all coming crumbling down now.

Now that my mum knows I'm seeking out an adhd diagnosis she says my brother has the same issues and wants him to go get tested as well. My dad who is 70 has struggled with all the same issues as well and believes he's also got it but never knew either. No point now for him to seek out a diagnosis but I knew after I figured out I had ADHD that I got it from my dad (I just felt too guilty to tell him 😕). I also believe my son has it. It doesn't impact him at school much because he's learned to mask it. But it all comes out at home.

Also OP you may know loads of people with a ND condition and just have no idea. I am very embarrassed about mine and do not mention it to anyone. You many have many quirky friends or acquaintances just like me who chose not to tell you.

Just an FYI - adults who have ADHD that you may not have know about are:

John F Kennedy
Richard Branson
Jim Carey
Walt Disney
Emma Watson
Jamie Oliver
Will .i.am
Christ / Caitlyn Jenner
Channing Tatum
Michelle Rodriguez

Many people with ADHD are highly creative. So if you know someone who is their own boss/ runs their own business / does amazing crafts / cake decorating / events etc chances are they also had ADHD or are ND in another way.

We’ve always been here. We struggle every single day. You’ve just never known about it. 🙃

I would suggest your school is letting you down hugely here. The assessment ds underwent suggested a number of things for the classroom - the vast bulk of which are already in place.

Unfortunately without diagnosis, there is absolutely no support or adjustments made for children in schools in my experience. Parents are told their kids need to toughen up, be less sensitive etc. As soon as a formal diagnosis is made, the often small adjustments that were needed, are made. It would be lovely if schools helped the child in front of them, but they don’t sometimes through lack of resources, but sometimes through ignorance and lack of willing. School is like a factory that wants a standard one size fits all approach in my experience.

I agree with those who say that autism was known about much longer ago than 30 years. I knew someone who was diagnosed with autism in the early 1960s. It turned out to be a wrong diagnosis as she actually had Rett's syndrome which wasn't widely known about at the time. But autism was diagnosed.

I think the difference is that in those days it was only the more obvious/severe forms of autism that were diagnosed and therefore fewer people fit that description. I suspect that people who had what later became known as Asperger's largely slipped under the radar.

You really don't get it do you? How many of the people you are talking about are working as, for example, mid level HR people but really, should be doctors?.

How many, if they had experienced a different earlier life would be incredible leaders, driving positive change and improving life for others?.

How many are stuck unable to be promoted or develop because they have always just been the "odd one" and weren't helped?

I went to school in the ‘70s and ‘80s.
Primary:
We were taught in year group classes and work was massively differentiated. I was given completely different tasks to students who struggled because of (undiagnosed) dyslexia.
We were expected to get on with tasks quietly whilst the teacher concentrated on 1:1 or small group teaching with students who needed support.

Secondary school:
There was a ‘remedial’ block. This was made up of two classrooms and students with additional needs were taught by three special needs teachers. We didn’t see these children in class as they had their own teachers and classrooms- a school within a school.

As for high ability (undiagnosed back then) ASD children - they were just seen as more unusual characters in class. The majority were accepted for who they were and the rest of us were in awe/intimidated by their genius!

People with Rett Syndrome do have autism traits too. It was originally part of the Autism Spectrum but now isn't.

There was a lot that was hidden but also it was less well known and understood 30 years ago.

I do think now there are many people ‘jumping on the bandwagon’.

Even on here you’ll find most threads have children with ND but they haven’t been formally diagnosed.

It’s fine if they think that because they want to do the best for their children but in many cases it’s an excuse to medicate or be lax in their parenting over what is normal child behaviour.

The fact is that most people are ND and there is no such thing as ‘normal’.

I think we should treat everyone like they have autism, ADHD etc especially children, as the techniques used for ND children are also very beneficial for those who aren’t ND.

My nephew has Asperger's. He is exactly the same little boy as his dad (my younger brother) was at that age. Obsessive interests (which back then, was just described as "very clever" or "exceptional focus"), a hard time fitting in with the crowd (brother was "shy") and some sensory issues (which were then written off as "a little quirk of his").
Whether it's better to label the condition and provide extra support (as my nephew is getting) or just get on with life and let the child learn to deal with what they are and how to fit in with the world (what was the case with my brother) probably depends a lot of the individual child. My brother learned to moderate his behaviour to fit in and has done very well in life.

Mumoftwoinprimary , do you mind me asking what kind of job that is? DD19 struggling to find a job she'd be comfortable with

My DH is dyslexic (not picked up on at school) and I highly suspect has ADHD. One of his siblings, the family suspect, is on the autistic spectrum but none of this stuff was picked up when they were young. It's only because a younger family member was diagnosed ASD that it became apparent.

A friend of mine was diagnosed with ADHD in her 40s when her son was diagnosed.

I remember growing up in the 1980s knowing adults who were "quirky" or "eccentric" who I look back and now think they might have been ND.

Although I've read (iirc) that a fathers of 45+ are more likely to have children with certain ND.