Why so many ND now?

[Jumpking]

Had much with 4 friends yesterday. All the ladies told me they're waiting for ASD assessments for their children.

I know so many parents of ND kids.

I don't think I'm unique.

There was around 5 or 6 ND children in my primary school growing up. Now this is per class, minimum. The children weren't in special schools, they just didn't exist in such high numbers.

What do you think has been the sea change in our society that means there are now far more ND children than there were 30 years ago?

(And it isn't because they weren't diagnosed 30 years ago, or we weren't aware... There really weren't children in my school, or the school's of friends I've discussed this with, who had sensory issues, or clothing issues, or only beige and/or dry food, or toileting issues, or obsessive interests issues or all the other ND things which are so prevalent with children today)

This is one of those threads built on world views that don't change. I'm suprised you are so sure 'no-one' at your school had food issues, when i was at school in 80s everyone thought food was horrible and easy for loads of people to not eat it. Hide food issues.

My take is we probably do over-label as ND is the norm. We should design inclusivity in, lower the stakes on assessment and not have to single out in this way.

Nearly all kids who have ND diagnosis appear to have a parent with same condition undiagnosed which implies they existed and either got on with it in more benign schooling and cultural environment with lower expectations of kids or grew up with huge amounts of shame issues of self-worth.

I'm in my fifties and recently diagnosed ASD. As a child I was the loner. I didn't present like what people think a ND should. Because I'm a female. And ASD presents quite differently in girls/women. I struggled through my teens, twenties until I had a ND child and a teacher told me she thought they were ASD. Doing research I just saw myself in every trait. Everything made sense.

So back to when I was at school. Looking back there were definitely a few pupils who were ND. The boys were usually just classed as trouble and dropped out of school, the girls were nerdy weirdos or shy anxious etc.

We've always been here, we just recognise it easier now.

When you were a child you probably weren't noticing the children around you who might have had issues with various things - or they were probably doing a really good job of masking because of how they knew people would react to them.

However, I think it's a bit of both, because I think there has certainly been a massive increase in anxiety and depression in children in recent years, and children with anxiety can often present as having some kind of Autism/ ADD, when in reality whatever they are doing is actually a symptom of anxiety.

So I think children are sometimes wrongly diagnosed these days, but there's no way that ND children didn't exist when you were a child - there was just less awareness and you as a child probably would not have noticed.

When I think back to my primary school class, I can think of 5 children that potentially had autism.

I was described as a perfectionist, a worrier, sensitive, high achieving, mature for my age, a child that struggled with change etc. I ‘got on with it’ but inside I was an anxious wreck. As an adult it became clear I have autism etc. It was just not diagnosed back then. I hid it, I know now that was masking behaviour. A friend of mine was also diagnosed with a couple of things later life, she hid her uncomfortableness with having messy hands working with clay and paint, the noise in the dinner hall, she struggled to understand other children and have friendships amongst a list of other things. She would misbehave to avoid those situations and felt terribly anxious.

I don’t think your post is very pleasant really, not sure what you’re insinuating.

I'll jump in with a really unpopular view.... We are medicalising human diversity. Yes there is a huge range of what is normal in humanity, why do we need to label it? Why can't we just say everyone has different needs/ works in different ways / has different preferences and that's ok? I actually feel that so many people now being labelled as ASD is actually diluting support available for the much smaller group of people with autism who are affected to a much much greater degree and will never be able to live a normal independent live, those individuals with major cognitive impairments.
But I'm aware it's a very unpopular opinion. I'm also aware however of rather a lot of friends who privately agree but would never express this publicly because it's become unacceptable to question rising diagnosis' of ASD.

I was diagnosed with ASD recently at age 34, shortly after my 14yo DD.

You sound very much like my MIL with her 'I can't see that there's a problem' and 'this didn't exist in my day'.

The thing is OP, how can you really remember (or even have ever truly known) the eating habits, sensory needs, learning issues etc of all the children you went to school with years ago! You're extrapolating from vague recollections and zero actual data.

I went to a small school, am 40 now, and I couldn't tell you the eating habits of a single child in my class, let alone the years above and below. I certainly wouldn't have known if they had sensory issues or other things that might be managed without everyone else having to know about it (especially at a time when people were less open). Not to mention the fact you were a child so wouldn't have known what to look for, bearing in mind children often go undiagnosed by professionals still, how were you supposed to have identified all the ND kids? So just because you (possibly erroneously) don't recall them doesn't mean they weren't there. It's also fairly rude to say there were only a handful of 'quirky' kids as if that's the way you'd know .

FWIW my DH is currently undergoing assessment for ASD. His mum occasionally recalls that he was "very odd" about clothes and thing like how seams or labels felt as a child, but I don't suppose his friends ever knew that! I recall various kids from school that I'd now bet my house on having a diagnosis. My DC has ASD and I see many of their behaviours and it reminds me of some of the children I went to school with. On the flip side, when I have told some people about my child's diagnosis they are incredulous because they appear 'normal' to them, so other people really have no clue about what we see and deal with. My mother thinks she has ASD, but now in her 70s she doesn't see the need for diagnosis and probably masked well enough at school to not have stood out in any way.

I agree no one had heard of autism et al 30 years ago.

But I cannot remember my primary, or secondary school, having more than a handful of what were then considered "quirky" children.

Don't remember anyone refusing to eat food... School dinners were served around the tables of 8 children, with the 11yr olds cutting up pies, serving them, then stacking plates. Not a care in the world if anyone got gravy on their hands. Every child would eat most of what was given to them every day.

Children all wore school uniform. No adaptations allowed due to sensory issues, and none of my friends used to moan about the clothing causing them issues.

Exam anxiety...we all got on with it. All accepted it wasn't great, but had to do it. Didn't seem to cause breakdowns or school refusal at the time.

The growth has been phenomenal and there is absolutely no way there were at least 56% of the school population who were ND in the mid 80s.

Op I went to a school reunion thing years and years ago, no one but two people knew who I was. I was so shy, reserved and quiet. Just slowly plodding through school trying not to be noticed or talked to. I think these things are picked up on more now. I used to lock myself in the same toilet every break to rock back and forth until the bell went and I'd run to next class before anyone else to get a seat at the back by myself. I was barely noticed or talked to at all. I refused school lots, but with no friends who noticed 🤷‍♀️. Exam dress, I was good at covering self harm.

Just a thought

Op are you suggesting that this increase in ASD diagnosis are bullshit? That professionals are giving them out willy bully? What's your actual point here?

I had this conversation myself this week. I can’t understand what is happening here.

@Lazerbeen spot on too.

in terms of ability to learn and academic performance as a society we seem to forget that someone will always be top and someone will always be bottom. Being bottom now isn’t considered acceptable and often involves seeking a label. In my school there are children who are truly ND and children who just genuinely struggle academically. There’s a difference but quite often parents can’t accept that.

The struggle academically does then impact behaviour due to frustrations etc, and the additional pressures to perform compound this. It’s a viscous cycle.

This. Sorry to here your MIL isn’t supportive.

Part of me feels like reporting the thread but the other part of me hopes the OP is handed her arse on a plate, mumsnetters are good at doing that when it’s called for.

Vicious, that should read

I used to have a friend whose now in his mid 70s. He told me that growing up, (50s/60s) he had a friend who was Autistic. He didn't talk.

Whilst there probably are a minority of parents trying to get a diagnosis for their child when it's really heir upbringing, they really are a minority.

But I cannot remember my primary, or secondary school, having more than a handful of what were then considered "quirky" children.

But 30 odd years ago there were more special schools where a lot of these children would go so they wouldn’t have been so visible. I was at primary school in the mid 80s and there were 2 kids in my class (that I knew of) that had a sibling in a special school.

I think the way we interact with our children when they're very young (babies / toddlers / preschoolers) has had an impact. Until a generation ago, children were the sole focus of their (mainly) mum's attention. Mums didn't usually work outside the home, they weren't rushing to take older siblings to school or activity clubs (as in most cases even primary school kids would walk themselves to school and clubs were limited to things like Brownies / Cubs / ballet in the community hall at the end of the road).
Babies sat in parent-facing big prams until they were toddlers so face to face communication was happening continuously. Mums (and the toddlers) weren't glued to the TV or their phones. Infants were cuddled, played with, read to and talked to all day long. And now they're not. I do wonder if this is affecting brain development.

Food issues were easily hidden as there wasn't the lunchbox police. A kid in my class had a white roll, cheese and onion crisps and Mars bar every day, we did tease him but looking back it was probably food issues. Plus fear, people forget how scary school could be.

What, for initiating a discussion? It's an interesting point to be honest- what do you dislike about people talking about it?

What the fuck? Jeez, just when you think you have seen it all.

Social perceptions have also changed. We lived in a village and ND children didn't go to our secondary school. A bus came around and took them to a special school. My next door neighbour was one and he is a completely functioning man with adhd, nowadays, no way he wouldn't be caterered for in mainstream.

For anyone interested - there has been a massive increase in diagnosis but the significant part of this increase has been in adults (so all those people that didnt exist) and women /girls.

Specialist schools is another good point. My mum used to do supply teaching. In the 90s there were three specialist schools in the area I grew up in - 2 for mild to moderate needs and one for moderate to severe needs. Now there is just the one for moderate to severe needs.

That is a lot of children who are now being educated in mainstream who 30 years ago would not be.

This

I also think it's just talked about more and the stigma is not as bad as it was.

1 in 5 people are assumed to be ND. I suspect I am. But the words my mum used were:"awkward/contrary", "thoughtless", "clumsy" "careless "

No eating issues, but I could feel a scratchy jumper through a shirt. I couldn't use certain cutlery or plates.
My hand was always up first in class. I had to win everything. I had to be first in line to go in after break and would hover, waiting. I struggled with friendships. I used to lose everything.

I was very lonely and unhappy for a long time.

I have quite a few female friends now, who would also be diagnosed. The excessive talkers; the risk takers; the chronically indecisive.

So yes, I agree that we're trying to medicalise the human condition.

When I was a child any children with obvious SN were sent to what were called special schools. I remember an ex work colleague, in his fifties now whose parents fought tooth and nail for him to be sent to mainstream school. Then there was a huge policy shift of inclusion, a Baroness was lead on the policy, I saw her interviewed once.

My friend is a retired maths teacher, when she became involved with assessments of her own pupils it became apparent that she was ND.

Myself and DH both work or worked in higher education our entire lives it became very apparent once the needs of students were discussed with us that we are ND. I taught myself to read before I went to school and can remember every single telephone number I have dialled more than a couple of times throughout my life. I see patterns in things, black and white thinking, issues with clothes, nibbling edge of bedsheets, issues with noise. Lonely children that found other children childish who flourished once we were adults.

Ah - yes - the “refrigerator mother” theory. Now very debunked.

Actually I would say it is the other way around. My parents are always surprised at how much Dh and I (particularly Dh - endless discussions of “he’s so hands on” when Dh is doing some basic parenting) interact with the kids.

”We used to just put you in your play pen - I had housework to do” was mentioned many a time…….