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Ukraine Invasion: Part 26

993 replies

MagicFox · 20/05/2022 09:35

Here we are, on top of our rock

OP posts:
Thread gallery
61
Ijsbear · 31/05/2022 15:50

The Kyiv Independent, [31/05/2022 15:50]
⚡️ Gazprom leaves London Stock Exchange.

Gazprom left the London Stock Exchange following the Russian government's demand that Russian companies quit Western stock markets.

And

🔺Secretary of the Security Council of Russia Mykola Patrushev announced that Poland is moving to capture territories in western Ukraine.

According to him, the partners of the "Kyiv regime" do not mind taking advantage of the current situation in selfish interests. This, according to Patrushev, was confirmed by Polish President Andrzej Duda's visit to Kyiv and his words that "the Polish-Ukrainian border will soon cease to exist".

"Apparently, Poland is already moving to action to seize western Ukrainian territories", - Patrushev said

Didn't realise that Poland had declared war on Ukraine too. Perhaps Poland and Russia will become allies? snickers

Alexandra2001 · 31/05/2022 15:52

notimagain · 31/05/2022 14:18

I'd have to check but I don't think anybody in the West has promised to supply western produced Armoured Fighting Vehicles with large calibre weapons attached.

As for artillery and rockets, yes I agree I'd like to see more deployed now but it might be worth bearing in mind that for most countries (US aside) providing say even a dozen XX type long range guns or twenty yy type long range rocket launchers is actually donating a sizeable chunk of that country's inventory.

Thats exactly what i was saying, German armoured vehicles with a 20mm gun are not going to make a huge difference to Ukraine atm, i think Bojo has said we need to/will send tanks missiles etc etc implying heavy weaponry but the reality is APC's, land cruisers and short range stuff.

Yes, the artillery has to come from the US, France sent 13 units and the yanks 90, with another 90 to come.

Biden seems to be back tracking on missile systems and apparently Ukraine has said (without naming any country) it expects promises made to be upheld but fgs ukraine hasn't got all day!

L1ttledrummergirl · 31/05/2022 16:05

I didn't think Russia were at war? If they now believe they are then surely they are a legitimate target for Ukraine?
I wonder if a drone strike on the Kremlin from Ukraine may focus the minds and bring the war more into focus with the Russian population.
It can't get much worse for Ukraine.

(I know, I know, nuclear weapons, escalation etc, not going to happen. But still..)

OwlsDance · 31/05/2022 16:06

I really wouldn't pay any attention to what Russian TV is saying. Skabeyeva and Solovyov are propagandists who are paid to cause hype and hysteria. That programme has about as much credibility as Jeremy Kyle.

Solovyov was saying how Russia just needs to raise one eyebrow and Ukraine will be gone. That was before invasion. Russia must have really massive and heavy brows, as they seem to have some difficulties with that...

katem98 · 31/05/2022 16:19

@OwlsDance Love that last part of your post, made me chuckle quite a bitGrin I really appreciate your input, always interesting.

notimagain · 31/05/2022 16:28

@Alexandra2001

Thats exactly what i was saying, German armoured vehicles with a 20mm gun are not going to make a huge difference to Ukraine atm, i think Bojo has said we need to/will send tanks missiles etc etc implying heavy weaponry but the reality is APC's, land cruisers and short range stuff.

There's a lot of promises made by politicians various (not just by Mr Johnson) that sound good as a sound bite when reported by the Press but maybe don't stand up to detailed scrutiny, and "tanks" is a favourite...so far that's usually turned out actually be lighter Armoured Fighting Vehicles.

I think the UK promise is actually Challenger 2 to Poland as a backfill for any T-72s they deliver to Ukraine.....and even that promise has sometimes raised eyebrows elsewhere amongst those who appear to have reasonable knowledge of the state of the UK Main Battle Tank Inventory.

minsmum · 31/05/2022 16:47

mobile.twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1531663462836887553 another interesting tweet

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2022 16:52

Natsku · 31/05/2022 15:24

Is this catastrophising talk or is this actually likely to happen? That the UK might have to do electricity rationing?

My best guess is it wont be as bad as that but I do think there is a real possibility of rationing.

Its been said for a number of years there is a problem with the UK's energy security and long term strategy. There was concern prior to the war that in the medium term blackouts were a real possibility as older power stationed went off line as planned.

The problem is our lack of surplus capacity. We don't really have much in the way of a contingency plan for any particular crisis over our energy supply.

We know the UK has sailed very close to the wind over the last few years and cut contingency planning to near none existant.

We know real concerns over supply chains were ignored over Brexit and our planning going into each withdrawal stage has been woeful and thats manifested in various mini crisis.

I think that people desparately trying to keep their bills down is going to offset it to an extent too though. People will be consciously using as little as possible without prompting out of sheer necessity. So projections of usage are not going to be as high as expected. This is unlikely to be properly factored in.

Either way December and January could be very bleak indeed. I think in a few months we could be having very heated discussions on MN over Christmas lights (both council ones and home ones) and whether we should be using them. Also see street lights (which will be a particular concern in terms of safety). But yeah I think thats likely to be very real, even if we don't get more serious blackouts.

And I still think we are better placed than many others. We only get a small fraction of our energy from Russia. We should theoretically be contracted in to get most of our gas supplies this winter, but the price point is going to be the problem.

I do think we perhaps are going to be less exposed to shortages compared to elsewhere in Europe. The problem here, will instead be whether you can afford it. Self regulated switch offs are going to be the problem in the UK instead. We will see a spate of house fires and the like as people use candles or real fires in the home. And lots of big concerns over freezing elderly. The Tories will helpfully tell disabled people to get the bus which got axed or sit in a library they long since closed instead and there will be a public meltdown over not being able to get tins of beans at the food bank and even if you do, they are going to be stone cold...

Its not going to be pretty. Even if there is an end to the war by summer imho.

All these things are now 'baked in' to use a phrase much over used in the last couple of years.

We will struggle at this point to contingency plan our way out of this. The fact EDF has said its now too late for one of its nuclear plants is probably a sign of things to come.

Personally my family will cope. It will be easier for us than many Europeans who may well be more likely to face blackouts. However I can't say it will be easier for us as a nation compared to others.

It will be back to the 1970s for many.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2022 17:02

Edward Stringer Thread worth reading.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531587611508084737.html

It talks about the assessments from 'old Europe' v 'New europe' and the fact that Russia can only win if it break resolve with gas or wheat...

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 31/05/2022 17:31

Honestly I'm wondering if the Russian state television debates are deliberately melodramatic, almost like a form of entertainment for the domestic audience? The equivalent of EastEnders. Or they are mentally unstable.

Natsku · 31/05/2022 17:58

I didn't realise things were that bad RTB I know things might get very difficult for the parts of Europe more reliant on Russian energy but thought the UK mostly avoided that. Shit. Hope it doesn't get that bad. There's no talk of anything like that here, possibly they just don't talk publicly about it yet but are preparing quietly or then its not predicted to be an issue. At least social support and public services hasn't been decimated here so any problems can be helped, and we don't rely on gas for cooking and heating which is probably a big factor.
All so depressing to think about, regressing to the 70s or even worse.

MagicFox · 31/05/2022 18:13

I'm in the UK and this thread is the only place I've seen this mentioned

OP posts:
Ijsbear · 31/05/2022 18:22

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 31/05/2022 17:31

Honestly I'm wondering if the Russian state television debates are deliberately melodramatic, almost like a form of entertainment for the domestic audience? The equivalent of EastEnders. Or they are mentally unstable.

Im honestly at the point of wondering if Lavrov is subtly undermining Russia somehow. His lying is so extreme.

MMBaranova · 31/05/2022 19:09

Thank you Owlsdance for video translation. I saw another version that started earlier with Chechens walking around Severodonetsk just a short distance to the North and encountering friendly civilians sitting outside their homes in the sun. The civilians didn't surprise me (there will be some who are pro-Russian and others who decide they ought to be pro-Russian) so much as images of a neighbourhood well into the built up area that was light on damage and had fairly relaxed fighters sauntering around. Meanwhile maps online suggest a front is just a short distance away. Perhaps.

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 31/05/2022 19:27

t.me/ukrainenowenglish/9639

Who knew?! Azovstal held out because of these guys. If I've read this correctly, they flew men in!!

ScrollingLeaves · 31/05/2022 19:39

@MMBaranova today 19:09
Thank you Owlsdance for video translation. I saw another version that started earlier with Chechens walking around Severodonetsk just a short distance to the North and encountering friendly civilians sitting outside their homes in the sun. The civilians didn't surprise me (there will be some who are pro-Russian and others who decide they ought to be pro-Russian) so much as images of a neighbourhood well into the built up area that was light on damage and had fairly relaxed fighters sauntering around. Meanwhile maps online suggest a front is just a short distance away. Perhaps.

I think this was it. I saw on the Al Jazeera site. Did you mean by the ‘perhaps’ MMBaranova that you feel suspicious of it?

^OSINT Aggregator
@AggregateOsint
Videos of #Chechen fighters from today show a tour of the city center. The blue and white roofed building has been geolocated to: 48.94644, 38.49439. The lack of fighting or tactical posture by #Chechen's indicates that the frontlines are far away from this location.^

twitter.com/AggregateOsint/status/1531491829060931586?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1531491829060931586%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-158568651808911482.ampproject.net%2F2205120110001%2Fframe.html

ScrollingLeaves · 31/05/2022 19:45

What Al Jazeera said about that video.:
^13 hours ago (05:42 GMT)
Chechen leader posts video of troops in Severodonetsk city centre^

Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov has posted a video of what look to be Chechen troops walking in the middle of the city of Severodonetsk, speaking with residents and taking a Ukrainian flag off one of the city’s central buildings.

Explosions can be heard in the background as residents happily thank the fighters for “liberating” them.

The governor of the Luhansk region, Serhiy Haidai, said that some fighters from the opposing side had entered the city, but that the scenes of residents welcoming them were staged.
From:
www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/30/turkey-erdogan-talks-with-putin-zelenskyy-about-grain-exports-liveblog

MMBaranova · 31/05/2022 19:58

I'm confident with the video location as I could geolocate it from the flagged colour sports structure at the school (it's yellow and blue, not white and blue). Also the earlier part of the video had a distinctive fountain that I could see was outside a cultural centre (1:16 in the link you posted).

My perhaps is more a qualifier as to I am not too sure what is going on. I suspect that Ukrainian forces are withdrawing. I would pull back. The Russian forces are concentrated in the Donbas corner and ceding ground while they hopefully run out of steam would be my call. I certainly wouldn't want to leave my forces in any pockets.

I'm not Zelensky though and neither am I Putin. If I was Putin, I'd be checking my maps of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts to see how close I was to completely occupying them. If I reach 100% control of both, I'd call a pause and say I had, along with most of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, achieved a Novorossiya goal. Role-play MePutin is not in the best of health and wants a legacy to sign off. Real Putin may think otherwise.

Ijsbear · 31/05/2022 20:10

The general view from the trained observers and hints from the UKr side are that they might withdraw, yeah, MMB

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2022 21:09

MagicFox · 31/05/2022 18:13

I'm in the UK and this thread is the only place I've seen this mentioned

Give it time. I fear the penny will start to drop.

https://www.energylivenews.com/2020/09/02/national-grid-boss-warns-britain-risks-power-blackouts-because-of-network-decay/
Sept 2020

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/22/great-britain-faces-risk-of-winter-blackouts-system-operator-warns
Jul 21

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/07/risk-of-uk-power-cuts-this-winter-has-increased-says-national-grid
Oct 21

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-60213578.amp
1st Feb 22

All pre war.

There have been warnings about a potential problem for years. All it needs is for a crisis to actually happen (like this war) and I don't see how you avoid the problem.

You have to really be paying attention to notice this stuff, but its definitely not something thats just turned up out of the blue. Its a real long term structural and planning issue weve ignored despite warnings.

MagicFox · 31/05/2022 21:10

*looks for camping stove on Amazon

OP posts:
TargusEasting · 31/05/2022 21:29

@RedToothBrush Give it time. I fear the penny will start to drop.

Give it time you say...hmmm. In a few weeks, if you'll believe the tabloid press now, it'll be the Shilling that's dropping. Just to keep up with inflation deflation.

Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

blueshoes · 31/05/2022 21:30

Ijsbear · 31/05/2022 20:10

The general view from the trained observers and hints from the UKr side are that they might withdraw, yeah, MMB

Sorry to be slow on the uptake. Is Ukrainian forces withdrawing from fighting in Severodonetsk and not being present in the city centre a good thing or bad thing or a sign of something?

minsmum · 31/05/2022 21:31

mobile.twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1531697205228232704 just seen this on Twitter, surely it can't be true

OwlsDance · 31/05/2022 21:34

Honestly I wouldn't trust anything that Kadyrov claims. I can't remember if this was discussed here, but very early on in the war he posted a picture of being held at a gun point by supposedly Ukrainian soldiers. Only trouble was, you could see a Russian petrol station in the background. You can't find them in Ukraine. So very clearly staged.

In Russia they are known as Tiktok soldiers. Because guess what they do? Yep, busy making Tiktok videos about them "fighting".