2 DC under 3 and no family support - any advice?

[OxfordDonna]

Looking for tips / thoughts from anyone who's been in my situation and come through the other side! We have 1 DC will be 2 in June. We would like to have another child as I'm 40, but we have zero family support and I have found toddlerhood quite hard work. My husband works till late at night and so I do everything during the week from breakfast through till bath and bed time. I work PT running a business and DC1 is at nursery PT. I've realised the lack of family support, even just to have a grandparent look after DD for an hour is something I've missed.

Trying to look ahead and think about how we could manage things better this time around if I do get pregnant. We would really love a family of 4 in the long term so trying to make it work as best we can. We were slow to organise childcare last time due to pandemic as you weren't allowed to look around nurseries. Now we have our DD there, perhaps we could put a new baby's name on the list before they were born? Sounds crazy but we live in south london where it's a total frenzy.

Any tips around ways to help me manage 2 young ones? "Throw money at it" is a thing I see on MN quite a lot. We are lucky enough that we could probably afford to extend childcare a bit. DD would start state preschool when she turns 3 which would be cheaper anyway. Do you think a home help / nanny or au pair (not sure of the correct role) would be a good idea? Eg on the days when I collect DD at 3pm up until bedtime? To support with that busy part of the day? Do such people exist?

Are there any mums of two or more pre-schoolers who have no family and whose partners work long hours? How do you cope and do you have any advice?

Thank you x

My tip is that your husband needs to change his job so he doesn’t work until late at night. His job is not compatible with being the parent of a baby and a toddler.

Funny but not funny!

Its a fair point.

Your load would be eased if he pulled his weight with the parenting.

Agreed

Please can I have the benefit of the doubt here that as an adult I have considered the fact that my husband could indeed do a different job, and that, like many families there is a complex context to our lives which is not as simple as "husband gets a different job".

Is there anyone here who could answer my original question?

Your question was "any advice?"

Your dh being a more present parent is advice.

I don't want to be rude OP but I cannot take seriously a 40 year old who says she plans to have 3 more children but can barely cope with the one she has.

Where did she say she wanted 3 more children? Her post said she wanted one more child, not 3.

We are through the pre school years. One of the biggest challenges is when the children are sick. Perhaps your hours are flexible and that will be a godsend but ideally you need someone to share this burden with. Challenge also in not resenting DPs long hours.

However difficult it was, having two children has been a joy. For us, it was worth every struggle.

@theleafandnotthetree er... I don't want 3 more children?!?!!!!!! No bloody way!!! I only want 1 more! If we are fortunate enough.

Well you either out source as much as you can, so cleaner, childminder etc or you compromise as a family around working hours. Even if you have extra help it often does not take away the mental load that women often have so your DH does need to be involved in making sure he does his share. Also really consider if another dc is something that you could cope with. Once dc are at school you then have long holidays to consider, DH and I rarely take holiday together as we use annual leave to cover them. We also have never had family support. You both need to be on the same page.

Hi OP. Widowed single parent here. I lost DH when the DDs were 11 months and 27 months respectively. Nearest relative 250 miles away.
I would recommend a nanny. I had one who was non resident, she came daily so I could work as a hospital doctor. Better than nursery or childminder, as she will still come when the DC have chickenpox or norovirus.
Also recommend a large playpen, so you can keep the baby and toddler safe and apart while you go to the loo or answer the door etc.
And don’t have more than two DC - it’s a nightmare when you take them out to the beach or wilderness and they run off in different directions!

Thanks @SummerHouse yes that's a good thing that my hours are really flexible as I run the business so I can choose. So in sickness situations I could stay home.

Also whilst my husbands "normal" hours are till late, he also has a degree of flexibility if there was an emergency. He has enough seniority that he could work from home or something if there was a really difficult situation.

From the above posts it feels like there are no mums of 2 who don't have family support. Or to put it another way, no-one ever had kids unless they had a family network?? Whilst it's ideal to have family support, I know it's not the case that everyone does, so I was interested to know what practical measures those people put in place.

Also, I never alluded to my husband and I not being on the same page, I don't think? He is on the same page! I just wanted to know about childcare options and the best way to arrange things.

@Babdoc I am so sorry for your loss. How amazing you must be to have got through all of that, and being a doctor as well. I hope your DC are thriving and they are very lucky to have you.

I am in a similar situation. We have a 20 month old and an 11 week old baby. We have no family support closeby, both of our families live abroad. I am on maternity leave at the moment.... The most important thing is fresh air every day for the children. A nice park is your best friend.

While I'm on maternity leave my son goes to a childminder 15 hours a week. This gives me a bit of a breather.

When I return to work, both of them will go there full-time.

I would recommend looking for a nursery place when you are pregnant.

Can your mum move in temporarily to help you with new baby?

My mum stayed with me for many weeks after the birth and was a great help.

But what you say you want support with isn't something I recognise as family support. I know lots of people with young children, and none of them have their families come round in the afternoon for the "busy parts of the day". And they are all people who live near and get on with their parents.

The only family support I see those around me get is at best a days childcare (which you've already said you can use paid childcare for), or the odd babysitting for a date night - which others use a paid babysitter for.

Surely it's rare for family support to consist of people coming into your home regularly throughout the week when you are there and doing laundry/bath time/bed time etc.

We lived 1000s of miles away from family when our 2 were that age. But were friends with another family in the same situation. We looked after each other's children from time to time to get a break.

I have two children with no family support. My husband works normal ish hours, I need him. The mornings aren’t such a struggle for us so he will leave early to get done at a decent time. He does work away occasionally and god I notice it. But it’s important to remember you are a team and you need to act like a team. Have you thought about what you’d do with your first child when you went into hospital to have your second? I was in for nearly a week. Or all the hospital appointments? I don’t have any help and neither of them are in childcare yet. It’s hard really hard but we get through it. Have you thought about your age and being more tired this time round?

How much money do you have to throw at this?

you could employ a nanny for 35 hours per week at the times that suit you 1pm-8pm each day or whatever. Make it clear what you need the person to do at the outset on the ad.

We have 3 under 5, and both sets of GPs live on the other side of the Atlantic. We also both work full time. We survive by doubling up on childcare, I.e., we have all three kids in nursery AND we have a nanny. Not exaggerating (truly not exaggerating…!) when I say that at least one kid has been home sick 40% of the time since September. It would be simpler (and cheaper!) to only have a nanny and not bother with nursery, but we love the community nursery gives us, our kids are really thriving there, and also one needs to think about the times a nanny is not available (our nanny may be unlucky, but in just the past few months she’s had COVID, norovirus x2, antibiotic resistant strep, and a death in the family… so she has also missed multiple weeks of work).

overall, I’m thrilled we have 3 kids and I wouldn’t change that for the world, but it’s also completely relentless. The lack of family support is exhausting, and I feel deeply privileged that we’re able to afford enough help to enable us to work and have a few hours to breathe!

if you have money there must be agencies that supply staff to suit what you need

I had young children with no family help and husband who worked long hours. What worked for me was having them close together so they napped together and our days weren’t bound by nursery timetables and we did what we wanted! What massively helped was being lucky enough to be a SAHM after the second. If those options aren’t there, what really helped me was getting out of the house as much as I could and tiring them out. That meant park visits, farm visits, woodland walks, toddler groups where you can talk to other adults etc. Have something every day which gets you out. Have a routine where they have their tea and a bath-gives you something to do which fills the time late afternoon and early evening.
It might not seem like it but this time is precious-and providing you have something planned every day, can be lovely. It’s the only time you’re in charge of everything they do and see so try to find things where you’ll have fun as well as them. Start a baby sitting circle. If you’re at the end of your tether, take 5 minutes out. And follow advice and toddler books which sit with your ethos, it’s no use trying to feed on demand if your heart believes set routine is best. And they all grow out of stuff in the end-be it lack of sleep, difficulty potty training etc so deal with things at the time but try not to worry about the future.

We threw money at it.

Similar situation, dh worked away a lot - would often get sent abroad last minute for a couple of days and zero family living nearby. I found that i could do it all, the childcare, the housework, the cooking, etc but i wasnt enjoying any of it and i was running on empty.

I mainly struggled with the late afternoons, dd would be tired grouchy toddler, ds would be awake and id need to cook dinner but both dc would need supervising and they were too young to be left in a different room alone together, etc.

So we got an cleaner and an au pair. And it saved my sanity. Cleaner came in once a week for 2 hours, and au pair worked for an hour in the morning (would help with breakfast and would watch dc for 10 minutes so i could have a shower) and then worked from 4ish to 7.00 so there was just another adult to ease the stress of dinner/entertaining dc/watching one dc whist other was in the bath.

We were incredibly lucky with our au pairs. They were utterly amazing and im still in touch with them. I think since brexit getting au pair has become far more difficult as the rules have changed. It depends on where you live but this kind of job would also suit a student who is at uni during the day and free early evenings.

I’m a single mum to 4 with no family help and no partner (lone parent) it’s doable but hard, two will be easier