2 DC under 3 and no family support - any advice?

[OxfordDonna]

Looking for tips / thoughts from anyone who's been in my situation and come through the other side! We have 1 DC will be 2 in June. We would like to have another child as I'm 40, but we have zero family support and I have found toddlerhood quite hard work. My husband works till late at night and so I do everything during the week from breakfast through till bath and bed time. I work PT running a business and DC1 is at nursery PT. I've realised the lack of family support, even just to have a grandparent look after DD for an hour is something I've missed.

Trying to look ahead and think about how we could manage things better this time around if I do get pregnant. We would really love a family of 4 in the long term so trying to make it work as best we can. We were slow to organise childcare last time due to pandemic as you weren't allowed to look around nurseries. Now we have our DD there, perhaps we could put a new baby's name on the list before they were born? Sounds crazy but we live in south london where it's a total frenzy.

Any tips around ways to help me manage 2 young ones? "Throw money at it" is a thing I see on MN quite a lot. We are lucky enough that we could probably afford to extend childcare a bit. DD would start state preschool when she turns 3 which would be cheaper anyway. Do you think a home help / nanny or au pair (not sure of the correct role) would be a good idea? Eg on the days when I collect DD at 3pm up until bedtime? To support with that busy part of the day? Do such people exist?

Are there any mums of two or more pre-schoolers who have no family and whose partners work long hours? How do you cope and do you have any advice?

Thank you x

I would say go for it you have nothing to lose. When the time comes you will cope. I did I was 22 when my daughter was born my son was a few weeks off his third birthday and diagnosed with autism. I had a two week old that was breastfed and wanted feeding constantly. My partner was self employed so had to take work when he could. Daughter also diagnosed with autism at 3. I got more support from other parent/carer's than family.

Where we live in London most people dont have family nearby and most people work full time. Most people seem to try and outsource chores such as cleaning and have childcare till 6pm. Dont really know anyone that outsources putting kids to bed on a regular basis. Whilst I appreciate your husband works long hours - when does he usually see your child now? Can you take time off then? The reality is that if he is never home before 10pm - you are effectively a single parent. It's tough but lots of people do it.

So boring and predictable the MN man haters pile on that the obvious solution is that the OPs DH finds a new job....maybe he has to work the job he does to support the OP working part time ever thought of that? In interest of fairness the suggestion should be that the OP get a full time job 🤔

Anyway on to more sensible suggestions and you know realistic ones - yes explore early childcare options. My second pregnancy was twins and I have limited family support. We took a bank loan out over 10 years to fund childcare until 30 hours kicked in. I also take advantage of more flexible hybrid working and WFH more even if it's just to be able to get the washing machine on and hung out - the time I used to spend doing a commute I get household bits done

Food deliveries and batch cooking. Don't tie yourself up in guilt about what you don't get done.

Family wall planner is a must though

I have 3 children, 9, 3 and a baby 10 months. No family support at all. We both work FT and my DP works long hours. I understand how relentless it can be. I found the 2under 2 not as difficult as I expected. Baby just sort of fitted in. I have a very good babysitter. We have a standing day every month so we can have some time together with my partner. I also occasionally take the kids out alone and DP does the same so we can both get a break.

To the pp saying "why on earth would you want another if one is so hard?"... surely many women here have felt the same - Eg not necessarily loving the baby and toddler stage but still wanting to have 2 children ultimately? As many have said, it's a case of ploughing through the preschool years till they are that bit older

Maybe but you’re not even out of the toddler stage yet? Sure it’s a million times easier now mine are 13, 13 and 10 but now the pressure is on to take them places and provide money and all that jazz. And to be frank, what relevance is how ‘many other women feel’?

Things don’t necessarily get easier, they get different.

Stop having children.

Mine are 11 and 15 so it was a while ago. Very little family support since far away. Similar to you in that I work for myself, which does make an enormous difference. Different to you in that my DH also works from home, so we could spell each other to an extent, depending on deadlines. When we were both really busy and had kids at home, we'd do shifts - one of us would work 8-2 and the other one 2-9 or 10.

I had a four year age gap (second at 41), so only one in nursery at once. We both became really, really organised. I knew exactly when I was going to do the work I took on, and that was during school/nursery hours or in the evenings when they had gone to bed.

The rest of the time, if you're not working you have to really not be working – computer off, don't even think about it. Don't try and be doing work around toddlers, unless they're asleep - just too much stress. I think I had the attitude that it would be a relatively short period of time in their lives - and now it does feel like it was. Though not so much at the time.

My DH worked away Sun-Fri night for DD’s first 2 years. No family within 500 miles. I was self employed and worked around when DD would sleep (midnight till noon).

This is one of the big reasons DD is an only child. No way could I have added another child to the mix.

From the above posts it feels like there are no mums of 2 who don't have family support. Or to put it another way, no-one ever had kids unless they had a family network?? Whilst it's ideal to have family support, I know it's not the case that everyone does, so I was interested to know what practical measures those people put in place

also in london with all family in the north.
what we did (both working full time):

dh negotiated more flexible hours, starting early to do nursery pick up, or late to do drop off. We acknowledged his job was not more important than mine. This also made a massive difference when one of us has been out of work, as the other picked up the financial slack.

cleaner, gardener etc to take the weight off household chores.

full time nursery places. Yes more expensive in the short term, but meant I could have a day here and there if I felt ill, or needed to go christmas shopping, or one of us needed to travel or what have you.

i also went full time at work rather than part time. Made the above affordable, plus now I’m nearing pension age I am very pleased I did.

I built a family of friends but still didn’t have anyone to leave DD with for a good 2 years.

Ok @ChiefWiggumsBoy - not sure what you're actually saying though? Are you saying I am not cut out to have another child? What I find tough is the physicality and loneliness of the toddler / baby stage. Are you saying I won't ever find anything any easier? A lot of people on here have said that whilst all stages of parenting bring their own challenges and are hard, the physical relentlessness of the toddler years does get less hard once they are able to dress themselves and go to the loo etc.

@savethatkitty on what basis are you offering this advice? Did no first time mum ever find it hard? Is it only women who find it all a breeze who go on to have a second child??

Thanks @Changes17 . This rang true:

I think I had the attitude that it would be a relatively short period of time in their lives - and now it does feel like it was. Though not so much at the time.

I do think that's true. Even now DD is almost 2 it seems to have gone fast but there were times around 15 months when it was dragging! I can't remember all the details about awake windows etc etc now but at the time it was burned on my brain. I think our brains black this stuff out don't they!

I had no family support and my 2 DS's father was abusive so hasn't seen them at all since they were 3 and 4 (his choice, the court order was to keep away from me not them) and barely saw them since birth anyway, his family weren't interested because they either didn't have kids or theirs were older and he was the black sheep of many siblings. My mum had a new partner and lived 100 miles away, my dad deceased.

I had no support, was full time self-employed and then took on a full time job as well as being self-employed. DS's both went to nursery from 3 months old full time so I could keep my career going (expressing was a challenge, but I breastfed both for 5 months as well), I took on debts for a few years which I'm now climbing out of, but it's all been worth it.

They are both teenagers now, I'm in my 50's but I have a very close bond with them, we did everything together when they were younger - when they were awake we were doing something (walking the dogs, going to the park, doing art, reading, playing in the garden, going to the beach - hardly ever had the TV on, kids were always content) when they were at nursery or asleep I worked - it's been an almighty hard slog for 14 years and on my own for most of it, but so so worth it to see them now, both level headed, extremely bright and (so far) very loving, polite, helpful and supportive of my decision to work hard whilst bringing them up on my own - hopefully this will continue throughout their teens.......fingers crossed!! Absolutely no time for myself, but I feel that coming now they are 13 and 14.

My lifeline was having a superb nursery and primary school, so supportive and caring, close to where I worked, they helped to gave them the confidence and social skills which shine in them now, something I couldn't have done alone. My employers have also been super supportive if I've had to take time off with them being poorly, but thankfully with going to nursery full time they tend to catch everything there and build a good immunity to bugs, so haven't been ill much at all - I consider myself very lucky, but have also put in a lot of very rewarding hard work and I believe that's what it takes from parents no matter how many parents/grandparents are involved in bringing up children.

My advise is to concentrate all your efforts on your children, do without for a few years and reap the rewards when they get older - when you can regain your life, satisfied you've done the very best for your kids 🙂. Your husband might look to have it easy but he is bringing home the bread and butter and sounds like he's doing an important job. I don't know your situation, but on the face of it you seem to have it a lot easier than I did and at least they'll grow up with a dad. Good luck.

I have 5 children, one with SEND. At one stage I had 3 children under 4. I managed because you have to. My DH works 12 hours days in the City and frequently travels abroad for work. Two children is a doddle.

I have 2 DC and ex was away for long periods and when here left very early and back after bedtime when they were little. I worked 4 days a week ( now 5).

Biggest help I found would be a cleaner - have one now as a lone parent. And also accepting your life (outside of the kids) will be very limited for a while and you will be quite exhausted most likely. Which may be perfectly fine for you! You will find you get into a routine quite quickly as you have to - but it can be hard balancing their needs. I used to dread bedtime.

It obviously wasn’t the only thing but lack of any support and my resentment definitely contributed to my marriage ending. I don’t regret having my 2nd DC at all but it is without a doubt a lot harder with 2 than 1( even as they get older in my experience).

**
Two children is a doddle.

I would love to know what percentage of mums agree with this statement.

100% of parents with more than two children.

I would keep the eldest in nursery until school age and not do a preschool. Then you have cover all year round and till 5/6pm. Using your 30 free hours will reduce the bill alot.

Def get siblings name down at the nursery as soon as you feel comfortable, it’s similar to round here they have a wait list.

Managing the evenings when DH works late. It’s all about preparing in the morning together. If DH can lay out kids PJs, anything need for a bathtime etc. If you can use a slow cooker for dinners or have frozen pre made dinners ready or easy dinners.

Its hard but it’s in no way double as hard if that makes sense. We are considering a third and a similar situation ekk!

I can’t believe some of the responses OP! Ridiculous and unsupportive some, many others still seemed to involve your partner doing stuff in the morning or evening. But there has been some useful advice about paid childcare, lowering standards, slings and cleaners.

FWIW I have a long hours DH too, I find the evenings draining but have my routines down and join the kids 3 and 1) in the bath each night which is really fun. They go to bed late (I’m done at 9) but both sleep through till after 7 so it’s worth it for me.

I listen to podcasts while I clean the kitchen after 9 so it feels like ‘me time’. I’m 40 too so just try and enjoy the time with them and their chubby little cheeks and mostly do! Go for it!

Oh and also I fluked it and my second baby slept basically all day long (partied all night… sigh) but I actually found the first four months (whisper it) not that hard.

Some very snarky remarks on here....

Op I really wanted 2 children but no family support and I found the first 18 months really hard with my first. My tips:

1. Slightly bigger gap - there's a little over 3 years before mine
2. Keep some childcare going for your first if you can - my oldest goes to nursery 2 days a week, I appreciate I am very lucky I can afford this
3. See if DH can pitch in a bit more in the short term - I am not jumping in with the "he needs to change his job yadda yadda" but could he maybe take a bit of parental leave? If you are going to be throwing money at it anyway why not take the hit and have him home a bit more. My DP is taking Fridays off for 6 weeks this summer and I'm really looking forward to the extra bit of support.

Even with this there were some days I was just counting down the minutes until bedtime but I wouldn't change a thing. I appreciate I'm early days, mine are almost 4 and almost 6 months now but I don't regret a thing.

I have 2 young children 2 years apart, a husband that works ridiculously long hours 7 days a week (and sometimes over night), and no family support. They were both terrible sleepers and would nap for a maximum of 30 minutes, then wake throughout the night (my eldest stopped napping 2 days after his sibling was born). I am definitely through the worse of it but it was really hard. I now have a full time housekeeper who does cleaning, ironing and some childcare. When the kids were tiny, the late afternoon/early evening was hell. Tips for survival:

• eat all meals with them, even if that means supper at 5. Putting kids to bed when you yourself are hungry can be really frustrating. You also don't have to cook again once they are in bed.


• go to bed really early, like 8:30 pm.


• you and your husband assume responsibility for 1 child during the night and deal with any wakings, you look after the baby and your husband your older child.


• Batch cook and prepare supper earlier in the day. Assume that you will not be able to do any cooking in the evening, aside from putting something in the oven or boiling veg.


• When I did bedtime alone, I allowed my older child to sleep in my bed as a 'treat' on the condition that he closed his eyes and didn't talk. I lay next to him and fed the baby to sleep. I moved the baby to her cot, then moved the now sleeping older child to his bed.


• Bath with them so you don't have to shower later. Now mine are a bit bigger, I shower whilst they are in the bath (separate shower and bath).


• Have a comfortable sling for the baby.


• When it all gets too much, put them in the car and go for a drive. Mine would both fall asleep and I would pull in somewhere and read mumsnet for half an hour.


• It sounds really strange but using cloth nappies really helped me mentally. It was something I could control, plan and organise. Obviously for some people they would have the opposite effect!

It was just a response to you saying ‘when the kids are older’. I had another baby when mine were still toddlers and never gave any of what you’re thinking about a second thought. Maybe I’m just lucky, maybe you’re just overthinking - but I’m all for mothers not doing stuff (like having another baby!) because they feel they ‘ought’ to.

We have four, very close together in age. We put their names down for nursery as soon as I knew I was pregnant. We also paid someone to look after them at home occasionally so we had flexibility if they were sick. The key for us really was both of us taking equal responsibility. We are self employed and both do jobs that include overseas work (ranging from a few days to several months). If one of us is away, the other has to work around school, sick days, medical appointments, birthdays, clubs, cleaning, washing, ironing, and all the other family stuff. For me, that means making sure I can fit in 8 hours of work in blocks when they are at school and in the evenings.