2 DC under 3 and no family support - any advice?

[OxfordDonna]

Looking for tips / thoughts from anyone who's been in my situation and come through the other side! We have 1 DC will be 2 in June. We would like to have another child as I'm 40, but we have zero family support and I have found toddlerhood quite hard work. My husband works till late at night and so I do everything during the week from breakfast through till bath and bed time. I work PT running a business and DC1 is at nursery PT. I've realised the lack of family support, even just to have a grandparent look after DD for an hour is something I've missed.

Trying to look ahead and think about how we could manage things better this time around if I do get pregnant. We would really love a family of 4 in the long term so trying to make it work as best we can. We were slow to organise childcare last time due to pandemic as you weren't allowed to look around nurseries. Now we have our DD there, perhaps we could put a new baby's name on the list before they were born? Sounds crazy but we live in south london where it's a total frenzy.

Any tips around ways to help me manage 2 young ones? "Throw money at it" is a thing I see on MN quite a lot. We are lucky enough that we could probably afford to extend childcare a bit. DD would start state preschool when she turns 3 which would be cheaper anyway. Do you think a home help / nanny or au pair (not sure of the correct role) would be a good idea? Eg on the days when I collect DD at 3pm up until bedtime? To support with that busy part of the day? Do such people exist?

Are there any mums of two or more pre-schoolers who have no family and whose partners work long hours? How do you cope and do you have any advice?

Thank you x

Sure, I get it, of course.

I have 2 children roughly 3 years apart and no family help at all. My DH works long hours so wasn’t around at all Monday to Friday. So knew I’d need some help!

After the second was born I had a doula come daily for about 3 months. She was amazing with the 3 year old and the newborn. The newborn slept fine at first then once he hit the 4 month sleep regression and sleep went to shit I hired a night nanny/maternity nurse 3-4 nights a week so I could sleep. I was breastfeeding so they just brought baby through when she needed feeding. Once the doula stopped coming I got a nanny 2 days per week. At this point my 3 year old was also at nursery 2 days a week. Good luck!

Ps the doula was amazing as she looked after me, cooking me lovejy food etc, as well as helping with the baby

I agree with this

@OxfordDonna organisation! I'm expecting our 3rd, so we'll have 3 under 3, and while I know it won't be easy, I know I'll manage because I have my days organised, eg nap times, lunch times etc. also I highly recommend a baby sling! My youngest practically lived in his for the first 3 months of his life 😂 and I'm sure this one will too! Baby is comfy and settled but also leaves your hands free to look after/play with your older child.

Good luck!

@Rainbowbaby13 @I0NA so you think all doctors, nurses, etc etc should give up when they get to the stage of having kids?

Years ago admittedly, but I put an ad in the local college that ran recognized child-care courses and found a wonderful girl who wanted the experience and was also great with children. She came in from 4-6 every weekday in term time and was more flexible in the holidays and over some weekends. I paid her a rate that was acceptable to both and she earned a glowing reference when she got a full-time job - my daughter was a bridesmaid eventually at her wedding.
My other suggestion would be to not worry about the small stuff - lower standards where possible (you can have pyjama days sometimes, keep kitchen and bathroom clean but ignore cushions the need plumping!). Good luck.

@OxfordDonna i have 3 under 3, no family support and my husband works away a lot so I often do drop off, pick ups. weekends on my own etc (no, he will not be changing his job). My older two are in nursery full time at the moment and my baby will also be going to nursery full time in October when I go back to work full time . Throw money at it while you can, be organised, accept help when it is offered, etc. I would also say that newborns are (usually) SO EASY compared to toddlers. The killer is knowing you have to get up when the toddler gets up, but hopefully your husband maybe able to do some mornings….

My husband worked abroad for two years while mine were aged 2/3. Twins. Family not close by. We had a nanny 3 days a week and then the kids went to nursery 3 days. When they started at school we also had an after school nanny for a few days. I work for myself and fitted my work around the days the nanny could do but they were also able to be flexible for me. Worth looking the childcare groups to put out there what you need.

I’ve got a 4 year old and 2 year old and we have no family help. I work full time and DH 4 days a week. 4 year old is in nursery in the morning and 2 year old is with a nanny who picks the older one up from nursery and gives them their dinner. Nanny is here 8.30-5.30. I work long hours but can usually log off 5.30-7.30 to do bath and bed for the kids, then finish off my work later. We also have a cleaner 3 hrs per week and could do with more!

for me it’s not the weekly childcare that is hard without family, it’s the little things like having no one to take the kids for an hour at the weekend so I can do DIY, or for me and DH to do stuff together. We always have to arrange a babysitter and mostly it’s more effort than it’s worth so we don’t have much time without the kids. It’s exhausting but will get easier as they get bigger…I hope!

Even with family support most people look after their kids by themselves after school. Best tip is a good routine, get your preschoolers (no babies obviously) in bed by 7pm. Having an evening makes all the difference.

Also agree.

This stood out to me

We would like to have another child as I'm 40

is that a reason? Do you really want one or feel like you ‘should? Sounds like you’re running at your personal capacity?

@PBJTime I'm not trying to be rude but who do you think is going to do these jobs with long hours, if parents are meant to give them up? DH is a doctor. Are you wanting all doctors to give up when they have a baby so they can help their partners? I'm genuinely confused

My advice would be try not to overthink it or spend time comparing your set-up to other people's.

We have three DCs and both work full time (compressed hours over 4 days for me), my husband's job requires him to work late in the evening and some weekends. No family support.

We use standard childcare (childminder for our youngest, after school and holiday clubs for the school age ones) and have a cleaner once a week and an evening babysitter we use occasionally.

It's absolutely fine! Busy and sometimes chaotic but completely do-able. By all means hire in extra support but it's definitely possible to do it without.

Please don't take offense at this but...if you're struggling with one kid and no help, why are you considering adding another child into the mix?

I don't think it's especially uncommon - and not to play How Hard Top Trumps, but I had twins and all grandparents were either still working full time, 200 miles away or deceased so DH and I did everything. They went to nursery 4 days a week when I went back to work full time. I had my third when they were two and kept their nursery places so they went 3 not 4 days a week so I had time with the baby and some time to actually keep the house clean (during maternity leave I mean). When I went back to work after him DH did a 7-3 shift, I did a 5-8 shift during the week and Saturdays.

What is it specifically you're finding hard work? Toddlers are hard work and they are harder when you have a newborn as well. Things won't get 'easier' until she's at school. If it's as simple as she doesn't sleep through the night, then sleep train her ASAP. That was the killer for me - I did a rapid return controlled crying thing with my 3rd (can't actually remember what I did with the twins) as I was exhausted from full time work and being woken multiple times in the night.

My kids are older now but I’m a single/lone parent of 2 (and work FT).

what helps me? (Disclaimer: this is what helps me! It’s not what I’m suggesting anyone else has to do!!).

-paid childcare (when they were little, this was nursery. Now it’s wraparound care whilst I work).
-a robovac
-batch cooking stuff.
-running a tight ship re: managing time, household chores and ensuring I give attention to each DC etc.
-I still do early bedtimes to allow myself a bit of quiet time in the evenings.
-incorporating exercise time for me into school run and work commute (I cycle whenever possible, it’s a 12 mile round trip)
-I was able to negotiate my hours from shift work to set hours on set days (I’m a nurse on an acute ward/HDU), which coincided with childcare.

otherwise I just winged it and did as best as I could. My parents are both dead, XH was useless and doesn’t take the kids (long story). His family wouldn’t help. My DB (rest of my family are overseas/a long way from here) has helped but he has his own family/young kids so we call on each other in extremis for help. Bloody hard work when they’re toddlers but it does get easier.

Some of the responses here, good Lord!

OP, I've got a 4yo and baby twins. I work, DH works. Like a lot of things in life, it's about balances and compromises.

We eat repetitively and generally food that's quick to cook/heat.
We use supermarket deliveries.
We use Prime.
DD is in a school nursery, the babies have a nanny 3h a week and will soon have more.
DH earns ££££, I work a flexible (and poorly paid) job.
I know the afternoons will be chaos, so I don't plan anything more exciting than DD watching telly while eating a snack, and me bunging a dinner in the oven/microwave to warm or cook - that way I'm available to play/change nappies/cuddle etc.
Bathtime with the three is fine - you need to be organised, but it's not impossible.
We have clear me and DH tasks so that I don't feel resentful.
Sleep training.

No family around at all - both overseas and can't visit.

There are different ways to slice things, depending on preferences, income, longer-term goals etc. It's fine.

PS - no one plans for twins .

My brother and SIL have a really good set up with work and looking after their two DC. Both work full time. They’ve both negotiated/condensed their full time hours into 4 days: one will work Mon to Thurs, the other works Tues to Fri. Their DC go to wraparound care on Tues to Thurs (they’re at primary school now but this was also the case with them going to nursery). They have a cleaner come in once a week and have a robovac to keep on top of floors staying neat. They’ll tag team with mental load, cooking, shopping etc. SIL will do an exercise class/go running first thing 2/3 times a week, whilst my brother will get the kids up/ready. In the evenings, she’ll put kids to bed while he goes for cycle/plays football, so they have time for themselves individually too. But they balance it out.

Just remember OP, you could have twins!

You just get on with it Op. I had two under 13months and I survived. I didn't have outside help either. My husband was out from 7:30am until 6pm, which isn't that bad really and he's always been very hands on.

I spent most of the early days at play groups/children centres.

Thanks for the useful suggestions about doulas / nannies and student helpers! I think finding help during the 3-7 slot is going to be key.

Some of the responses though! It never fails to surprise me how unsupportive some mums can be towards each other. It's not nice or supportive do ask "what exactly is so difficult about looking after a toddler", for example.

My husband isn't home till 10pm usually so I can't ask him to help with bath etc during the week to those who suggested. Doing it night after night alone can feel tough, as many have said.

It can be very lonely looking after toddler without any family to invite round for a cup of tea or drop by. Many toddler groups are not that friendly either. Part of why it's "hard" is that it's lonely and relentless.

To the pp saying "why on earth would you want another if one is so hard?"... surely many women here have felt the same - Eg not necessarily loving the baby and toddler stage but still wanting to have 2 children ultimately? As many have said, it's a case of ploughing through the preschool years till they are that bit older. I'm just trying to work out the practicalities of doing so in a way that helps me as far as possible.

I had 2 children 2.5 years apart, no family support and a husband who is often away.

It's not easy but what got me through was building a network of friends with children so we could share some of the load (play dates at each other's houses etc) or just having a friendly face at the park. As they got older we have paid for David Lloyd membership and make use of the kid's activities to get a break (and it's somewhere easy to go swimming)

The other thing for us is if my husband is away Monday-Friday I get a good chunk of the weekend to chill whilst he takes charge. It's really important to take time to yourself when you can grab it.

I had a lovely woman who used to do childcare/ housekeeping/ dogwalking for me. Kind of a mothers help but she'd just do what you needed on the day. I was really flexible too and sometimes she'd bring her child as well. I'm rural though not sure if it'd be trickier to find someone in London where childcare seems in high demand.