New employee is a fake, where to go from here?

[londonnotlangdon]

It's a large organisation and I just had to send off her paperwork, passport, things like that

She was given the job after her second interview last week.

However, she has emailed me these documents (fine), and her birth certificate says born in September 2002?

That makes her 19?

This is a problem because, for example, her CV says she was an Executive Assistant to a Director in 2018? When she would've been in school?!

I've asked HR, who haven't replied properly, I've asked them to call. But someone replied to my email of concern with 'so you don't want this new me ever of staff? Why not?'

What can actually be done about this?

She's got a passport @PenelopeLively - that's mentioned in the opening post.

The principle of GDPR and protecting PII is to only involve the absolute minimum amount of personal data required for the task. In this case, a UK passport and a utility bill would meet the identity and RTW requirements. A birth certificate wouldn't add anything to this.

I get there might have been fraud. I just can't understand how they spoke to this person twice without picking up on the fact that they were potentially too young to have any experience let alone convince them they have 5 years of experience at least under their belt...

A junior assistant at age 13? 🤔

Incompetent or negligent HR and now it seems they’re allowing all the risk to fall into OP.

But if it is fraud then neither incompetence nor ignorance is an acceptable plea.

@90sBritPop - the OP did the interviews, can't blame HR for that.

I agree. Also at least a copy of her RTW docs should have been seen BEFORE interview. Not adding up.

She could have been working part-time from quite a young age, for family or family friend?

DC is currently regularly tutoring KS2 cusp children (GCSEs not yet taken), on a weekly (after school) basis. Would that be regarded with suspicion on a near future CV?

well no as tutoring is something its fairly reasonable for someone of 14-16 to have done. Or fixing IT equipment for people or learning to code. self employed businesse's selling stuff on etsy/creating youtube content etc.

But to be a PA for a large well known company? at 13? thats highly unlikely.

I don't think it would be discriminatory for the HR department to check out details of the CV - ask to see exam certificates, double-check the references/employment history. (DH's company have just changed hands, and they've wanted all sorts of details about his qualifications and employment history.)

If there are no actual untruths on the CV, fair enough - she showed her worth at interview, and it would definitely be age discrimination to renege on the job offer. If there are blatant lies, you might decide that you don't want to employ a liar. You might point out that she was very impressive at interview, and that she might do better to combine that with honesty for future applications. If it was more a case of exaggeration, perhaps you give her the benefit of the doubt.

I agree. Also at least a copy of her RTW docs should have been seen BEFORE interview. Not adding up.

@Regularsizedrudy - not always. The last recruitment I did just a couple of months ago we did applications and interviews, then made an offer subject to RTW, etc. It was the logical way to do it as we were hiring remotely. It also minimizes the GDPR implications if you only request the RTW/identity documents of those you're already interested in recruiting. Ask too early and you could be collecting data on people you end up not wanting to make offers to.

But the more I read about these "documents" the odder it sounds. It's unclear why the OP would have seen them in a large organization with an HR department. There's a whole GDPR can of worms thing going on here if the story is true.

Watching with interest.

^ this

Nothing wrong with whatever you've done but it needs to backed up with references.

Very few PA jobs at a senior level are part time anyway.

I agree. Also at least a copy of her RTW docs should have been seen BEFORE interview. Not adding up.

I've never had to provide RTW before interview - employment checks are normally done post-offer, as that way the company doesn't waste loads of time checking the RTW for multiple applicants who are ultimately unsuccessful.

HR should have flagged this before letting it get to interview. The fault is with everyone who’s dealt with this but HR seem to be trying to wriggle out of responsibility

This is not true. If it's for proof of ID then it absolutely is connected with the veracity of her CV/application/interview.

Regarding the birth certificate - civil service pre-employment checks recently required me to provide my birth certificate, so I don't think it's unbelievable that this might be asked as a standard process.

"The problem is the frequent and blatant lies?

You don't have a PA job at 13 ffs"

No. You don't.

You need to email your HR and say so you are telling me that it is possible she had X job at Y company at the age of 13?
I want your written assurance that there will be no comeback on me if she is employed here and has lied.

Good point! OP are her GCSE's listed as A-C? That in itself is dodgy, let alone the child prodigy work history!
Is the DOB DEFINITELY 2002? (I'm sure it is, but it's the kind of silly mistake I'd make )

I did my annual Counter Fraud training yesterday so all this and especially bits of the Fraud 2006 Act are all fresh in my mind 🤓☺️

Jeez, just pull her up on it. She either has a plausible explanation or she doesn't. If she likely can't explain it then you redact the job offer. What's so difficult about that that you need to ask Mumsnet?

I wouldn't dream of putting my dob on a cv though anyone with half a brain could figure it out based on school leaving date and uni start & finish dates.

So obviously each department in that company will work differently but for example the email she gave is '[email protected] and their other contact emails are things like [email protected]

Surely that is the first thing to check by contacting HR at the company she used to work for?

If HR at your company are concerned about age discrimination, it isn't age discrimination to check whether the contact details for her references are real if you suspect they are fake. You would do that for anyone of any age.

I think maths and English gcse were numerical for the first time in 2017, other subjects 2018. So if she’s 19 yo her GCSEs should be numbers.

and if she was 19yo she would know that and even if she’d lied about her results would be lying in the correct format. Which makes me think she’s older than 19yo.

Update -

So she's emailed in just before afternoon saying she would like to withdraw her application and acceptance of the role due to unforeseen circumstances

Very interesting

Thanks again for all your comments, now I must get back to work!

Oooh! She must've seen this thread!