What do you consider to be well off?

[Namechangestimes100]

What do you consider to be well off, for ease let’s say outside of London?

DH and I (early 30s) combined earn 85k base salaries (we get annual bonuses but as these aren’t a given and vary, can’t really include) We are most certainly not rolling in it. When I started working, 85k combined seemed like a lot, but with the increases in the cost of living, I do find myself worrying about money often, esp when i go back to work and we’ll have 2 kids in childcare . The 30 free hrs, doesn’t amount to a lot at all when split over the year with food+ nappies on top.

so i think well off probably over £100k a year?

what do you consider well off? For me it’s no money worries, you don’t worry about money.

( just because MN this is in no way a ‘brag’ post)

I absolutely love this!
I too am a single parent with a nearly full time job and 3 kids, one of which is at uni now. I dont have a mortgage but rent and have adopted a rescue horse which I would have never done with my ExH because we had so much debt etc.
Now my money is my own and I have no debt and am happy with what I earn,

Not the point of the thread so I’m not going to go into the why. Just her, but it’s 2x outgoings bills wise.

to do a 2 for 1 to the poster who said 2 households is a luxury, it’s really not, it’s a necessity, would much rather have the cash in the bank.

20 years ago DH was earning around 70k, he's now earning nearly double that but with 3 more children, bigger house to run, larger grocery bills , petrol and household bills I don't actually feel like we are that much better off at the moment.

I think it’s relative. I earn just over £50k, DH earns £40k ish. I have potential for OT, DH doesn’t.

reasonable mortgage payments (just under 1k per month).

DH pays CM & supports DC in other ways too outside of CM.

We do ok, but this month our dog injured himself and it cost £600, and we had to pay it berore the insurance paid us back and that was a very right couple of weeks - made us realise we need some decent savings! But saving a meaningful amount of cash seems impossible most months, there is always something popping up.

20 years ago DH was earning around 70k, he's now earning nearly double that but

Tbf today's 140k is probably not far off 70k 20 years ago.

IMO the more you have the more you go through. If you're a spender, you're a spender on any income, if you're a saver you make do on what you have and often it's enough.

Our combined is more than the OP's, I won't expand on that but sometimes it feels like we don't have enough based on certain expenses we have no choice about. Remembering that everyone's situation is different, more or less family members, if there is medical issues that are expensive etc. So how much you are bringing in doesn't always mean you're super well off if you have a lot of expenses that may not always be luxuries.

For me well off would be comfortable, never worrying about money, always able to replace or repair anything needing it, never fearing a bill etc this will be different amounts for everyone depending on other factors.

Tbf today's 140k is probably not far off 70k 20 years ago.

Agree and "bigger house to run" etc as per that post is a choice and luxury which is fine but there are things that could be done to reduce costs. So maybe it is considered to be well off when you choose a bigger house and more expenses by choice that may not leave you with extra money at the end of the day but it's going on things by choice... There are so many variables in what a comfortable income is. For us we have non negotiable medical expenses that take up a lot of money. This is not by choice and really eats into our what would be a very good income to someone without this burden.

It's a tough one to answer, because there are loads of different factors to consider. 85k household income is low for a couple who live in London and have three children, but would be really high for a couple who live in the North of England with no children.

Our income exceeds our outgoings comfortably and with a few cutbacks we will be able to absorb the cost of living increase for now, so based on that alone I would say that I am well off - depends on your standard of living really?

You say this, but if both of these households lost an income for 3 months before being able to find a new job, one could be in serious financial trouble with their mortgage as their debt burden is much higher and both would be on zero income for that period

We earn about the same as you op, south east, and we are well off. But we are 60. One adult DC who owns his own home, our mortgage paid off long ago. So all our money now is for us really. It all depends on your circumstances doesn't it?

I think you mean rich as opposed to well off.

We are not rich. But we have our own home, can afford to heat our home, have money for food, clothing and treats. In my eyes we are well off.

That doesn’t mean we don’t have any worries in relation to money and that we have enough money to do what we want.

But I would still consider us to well off.

I agree with this!

I acknowledge that DH and I are "well off", even though we don't feel like it. Combined income of around £100k but big mortgage (live in the South East), childcare costs of £800 a month, running two cars (needed for work) etc and it can feel like it doesn't go very far.

But we can afford to heat the house, don't have to worry about what we pick up in the supermarket, if something goes wrong with the car etc it's annoying but not a major disaster. We can put money into pensions and overpay the mortgage a little bit. I try hard to remember that all of these are luxuries and that if things are feeling tighter for us, some other people must be desperately worried.

The more you earn the more your outgoings though.

Only if you make that choice. For sure, I think that statement stands when you're starting out. You (hopefully) live within your means which may mean living in a house share and having to cycle to work through all weather conditions, and not having enough to join any clubs, or go out.
But once you have reached a certain standard of living, earning more does not mean you have to increase your outgoings.

Well off is less to do with income in my view

I keep seeing posts where people say if you earn above median income you're well off - none of that takes into account outgoings, some of which can't be helped

If you earn £80,000 but have 2 kids in childcare £2600 a month, student loans (£480) and rent on a pretty crappy 2 bed flat £2200 plus commuting costs £286 in London you're not well off by any stretch of the imagination (this is someone I know really well)

Well off to me is disposable income - what do you actually have a modicum of control over

It's not fair to say the couple above could move - anywhere they move to that's cheaper for a flat brings higher commuting costs (and they wouldn't get back to the nursery in time as their family who currently live close by pick up the kids at 6)

So you're left with 'don't have kids '

Or student medic loans

Or live in London

Well to be fair, a doctor doesn't have to live in London to work, they're free to live somewhere where both rent/mortgage and childcare will be much cheaper, even taking London weighting into account, so they're choosing to sacrifice some of their disposable income to live in an expensive area.

Someone on £80k would be able to have a very nice life in much of the country and buy a house in a good area and feel much better off than paying high rent to live in a 'crappy 2 bed flat'.

And yes, I know we need doctors to live in London, but it's not the responsibility of the individual to sacrifice lifestyle and wellbeing for the good of the nation.

I never get the logic behind the idea if you earn more your outgoings increase so you are not better off. Surely those outgoings mean things like a nicer house or area, more reliable car, the children you wanted, better food. Indeed some of the outgoings might even create wealth like pensions, savings and equity that build up.

You are always going to want more money. Especially on the kind of salary which is common now. When I started work a six figure salary seemed amazing but now its still not enough to afford the lifestyle I'd like.

I've always considered myself well off. I earn relatively more than most of my friends. Even when I was on £16k that was a great starting salary. I have never had to scrimp or worry about money. That is well off.

You've chosen the house you have. Its possible to make a property choice that leaves you with more disposable income but it's not always a good investment. Just be confident you have made a good choice and your assets will be increasing as well as your costs will fall when you dont need nursery any more. Don't fall into a trap of thinking you are badly off and need more.

A family members neighbour is selling her £1m + mansion and moving into another smaller property she already owns and how upset she is and what a hardship this is for her!!! It seems that even the very wealthy have something to whinge about. Better to be happy with what you've got.

For me, well off would mean being able to buy everything I needed, pay my bills, have a holiday, save some money and not be in a pickle everytime something broke down.

Ex husband is on £60k. He's definitely well off taking into account low housing costs where we live in Derbyshire. He and his partner bring in 6 figures together. He gives me £600pm child maintenance plus extras for school trips etc, and they have plenty leftover for a 4 bedroom house, 2 cars and lots of foreign holidays.

BarbaraofSeville

I think they would happily live elsewhere if they didn't need his parents (who live close by) to pick up their kids from childcare at 6 as they are not back by then (they could be doing surgeries at any moment)

PLUS they're both at the best teaching hospitals for their specialty

I'm just pointing out that it looks like a choice but in reality they need their parents to help because of that choice (which we as a country obviously NEED them to make as we need surgeons)

It's so so tied to where you live, & to a lesser extent childcare & commuting costs. You could live very very comfortably on £85k in our corner of ruralish Yorkshire. Our combined household income is less than half that & I'd say we live a comfortable lower middle class life, but we don't currently pay out much on childcare / commuting & can manage on one car, plus houses are pretty cheap round here so our mortgage isn't massive. If we tried to live on that income in our old home in the SE we'd be totally screwed though.

I wouldn't consider it well off, I will say it is a decent income.
Income alone isn't an indicator of wealth as someone pointed out earlier. We have a low income as I've just retired early and dh who is p/time will retire next year. But we have savings, rental property, no dependant dc, no mortgage or other debt. Our necessary outgoings are small and we have no fear of redundancy, heating bills, food increases etc.

A mortgage is a privilege, as is the ability to be able to fund healthcare etc. Those in these situations are well off surely. A lot of these outgoings are not available in the wildest dreams of those whose income is half (or more) than that, which is the case for a significant portion of the country. I don't think it's quite right to imagine what you have left after you've spent thousands on a certain lifestyle, and find that lacking for your purposes or social standing means you are 'not well off' but possible that's semantics.

IMO you are well off if you can pay a mortgage on a property that you can afford to maintain to a good order, in a safe area, can afford bills and food shopping and children (if applicable) are not going without, have a car that you can afford to maintain and so on. For so many people these things are not achievable, cars will be old and costly, a mortgage if it exists may well be on a home they don't like or wouldn't have chosen in an area that isn't ideal and can't be improved upon or repairs not actioned when needed or otherwise not even having the liberty of your own home ownership.

It is so difficult living on a lower income that I would rather think about how that can be changed for others, where to vote and how I can change things than worry about whether even more money on top of an over-the-average average household income would make my own life easier.

Compared to us, you sound like you're very well off - it sounds like you're both willing to work full time though. Even if I worked full-time, our maximum earning capacity would be £50k, but to someone else we're extremely well off.

If you're concerned about money, it's a question of looking at where you can cut back, ie we make do with one car and it doesn't leave the drive unless somewhere isn't walkable. Using less energy, buying less clothes, budget meals, looking for offers and good value items. Free/cheap trips out, ie park, bike rides - take a snack with you.